Pocher Rolls Royce Phantom Torpedo

[bap1609]

Roy where and how did you hide the wires?

[roymattblack]

The wires run down inside the steel lamp support tubes.

They are wired in parallel. One wire goes to the ignition switch on the dash and then to the + battery.

The other wire goes straight to the -.

All the wires were tied together with black thread and bound with thread along the inside of the chassis rail on the passenger side.

From there, up into the boot (trunk) and the battery.

Roy.

[roymattblack]

After looking at the roof frame parts, the car body, and reading several reviews/articles about the poorly fitting and saggy looking soft top on this car, I’m determined to make something reasonable out of it. It seems a pity to have spent an age building the car, only to end up making a permanent dropped-top just because it looks naff in any other position.

The superb Pocher build DVD I have is only of partial help here as the DVD covers the build of the Rolls Sedanca in minute and complete detail but the Phantom Torpedo is only complete up to the body fitting and the beginning of the roof. I knew this when I bought the DVD and I’ve had an e-mail update since, but still the info on the roof isn’t all there.

There are a few crucial points I’ve discovered since reading, looking at the parts and working out the convertible ‘motion’.

Firstly, the rear body/roof upright supports are supposed to bolt to a roof cross-member at the top.

However, if this is done, there is a nasty step in the join at the upper corner where top cross member bolts to the inside of the vertical support. This ‘step’ will show clearly through the roof fabric. To alleviate this, I have moved the cross member forwards by 5mm so that it is now in line with the vertical supports, but just in front of them. They are joined together by a small scratch-made cross-brace between the parts, held by two movable bolts. This will allow the upper roof cross member to swivel correctly when the roof is lowered but there will be no ‘step’ in the corners. The 5mm forward movement of the piece isn’t visible when the roof is finished and makes no difference in the rest of the build.

The other essential alteration is to move the rear roof cross member back from its body mounting points by 30mm. Yes, 30mm!

This means drilling new location holes in the body and completely moving the cross member back by that amount.

In the kit, all of the rear roof supports and cross members locate at the same point/hole on the sides of the car body.

This is clearly wrong, as to do so would give the finished soft top a curved ‘sloping’ rear, when in fact it should be nearly vertical and straight if you look at the real car. Looking at the fabric template, it seems obvious that the rear support needs to be 30mm further back to fit the material. Looking at numerous built examples of the kit, it is apparent that this error is the cause of the notorious ‘baggy roof’ on this model.

The roof material is made to be one shape, and the kit instructions tell you to build a roof frame that is a completely different shape and 30mm shorter at the top/rear.

Hence – baggy spare fabric with no internal support.

Mind you – that is the theory…….

Now to see how it works out!

I've posted a few 'where I'm up to now' pics and some 'close-up' pics that show how fiddly the attachment fixing bolts are, and also to show the new holes I had to make near the back of the body to take the rear roof support hoop. According to the instructions, all fixings should be on the front bolt.

Roy.

[bentwaters81tfw]

Roy, just out of curiosity, what is the 'Supercar' kit in the background?

[Bengalensis]

I think I understand what you want to achieve by moving that rear cross member 30 mm back. But I must ask; what happens then when you fold the roof down? Wouldn't that cross member then stick out far too much towards the back? Or am I missing something?

[noeyedears]

Its a damn shame that such an astounding and beautifully built model should end up end up causing you so much hassle over the roof material. Im sure you will come up with a superb idea to finish it off though. I sort of dontvwant this thread to come to an end, its been a joy to follow.

[roymattblack]

I think I understand what you want to achieve by moving that rear cross member 30 mm back. But I must ask; what happens then when you fold the roof down? Wouldn't that cross member then stick out far too much towards the back? Or am I missing something?

Yes, the rear hoop will stick out further at the rear, but this is also how the real car looks compared to the 'standard' Pocher build where the folded roof is level with the tail of the body tub.

On the real car, the roof hangs over the boot/trunk when folded.

It almost seems like a mistake on Pochers' part.

Roy.

BTW..... The 'Supercar' in some of the pictures is the Product Enterprise die-cast.

[Bengalensis]

Yes, the rear hoop will stick out further at the rear, but this is also how the real car looks compared to the 'standard' Pocher build where the folded roof is level with the tail of the body tub.

On the real car, the roof hangs over the boot/trunk when folded.

It almost seems like a mistake on Pochers' part.

Right, that makes sense. Looking forward to the development of the roof, an impressive project in itself.

[roymattblack]

Its a damn shame that such an astounding and beautifully built model should end up end up causing you so much hassle over the roof material. Im sure you will come up with a superb idea to finish it off though. I sort of dontvwant this thread to come to an end, its been a joy to follow.

That's a very kind comment.

I actually don't want the kit to end either.

Roy.

[roymattblack]

Well it seems that roof fabric is going to be more of a problem than I thought.

I went to two different shops this afternoon with the bright idea of pillow cases - lots of colours, plain, cheap, enough fabric for several attempts.

Hopeless.

Even fairly expensive ones are far too thin - almost 'transparent' when held up to the light. The roof supports would show through.
The Pocher fabric is surprisingly dense and tightly woven, although thin. One of the assistants in one of the shops commented on the fact it looked like a high quality material.

I tried jiggling the kit fabric to see if there is any way I can use it but it really is miles out and useless.

I'm going to have to try further afield......

Anyone got any ideas?

Roy.

[triumphfan]

What about visiting somewhere that makes curtains, etc. I remember me and the wife trying to find a certain material for some job in the house (may have been curtains) Finally got the stuff from John Lewis, the woman there new so much about different materials it made our heads spin!

Worth a try, especially if it is 'high quality' fabric.

Steve.

[bap1609]

How about cushion covers Roy

[noeyedears]

can you not soak it, stretch it and recut it or is it too tough or so far out it wouldnt work? What type of material is it cotton base, nylon, canvas..?

[roymattblack]

Many thanks for all the above suggestions. At present, it looks like one of my jackets is going to vanish from the wardrobe.....

I’ve been looking very closely at the model and the real car and whilst I have no illusions of making a convertible top that’s as good as the real thing, I have concluded that there really isn’t any way the ‘Pocher way’ is going to produce acceptable (to me) results.

Firstly, It’s a model car.
Ok, obvious. But it is predominantly plastic where the body and roof structure is concerned and on a real convertible roof, the fabric is under considerable tension, especially from front to back, to keep it taught and flat. There is no way that can be achieved on a model car without distorting the windscreen pillars and the roof hoops/supports. I can now see why so many of these kits have a fixed closed roof, as the model includes a plastic frame to fix the roof material over which will create a nicely shaped roof. That roof cannot be opened into an open top car. The only option there would be to make the roof solid and fixed closed, but removable in one piece from the car so as to see inside. I don’t want to do that so I’m going to ‘try’ to fabricate some kind of folding mechanism that will give the required support to the long sides above the side windows of the car (this is missing in the kit) that will fold out of the way and be invisible when the roof is down.

The first move will be to alter my already altered front roof hoop/supports on the rear side vertical supports. These will need to be moved backwards to give me some room to create fixing points for my yet-to-invent side rails which will need to be thin yet strong, but still folding in some way……

I will also have to add the missing central cross support hoop, and re-think the fixings at the windscreen end.

All this is going to entail some experimenting and trial dummy-roofs. (rooves?)

Onward and upward….

Roy

Edited January 6, 2014 by roymattblack

[bentwaters81tfw]

Umbrella ribs?

[roymattblack]

Umbrella ribs?

Ace idea....!!!!

I've got an old dodgy umbrella in the boot of my car.

Methinks a bit of surgery coming up!

Roy.

[noeyedears]

if you get stuck, post a drg of what you need and ill see if we have anything suitable lying around art work.

[roymattblack]

I've used the steel rod from the umbrella central parts to make the side rails and used polystyrene tube as the fixing points at each end.

The rod is a perfect fit in the tube and by careful bending, testing, trying different shapes etc I've made two rails that follow the shape of the car doors and can hinge inwards when the roof is dropped.

Now I need to work out a way of having the central hoop - yet to make it - able to clip onto the side rails in some way. The hoop will be fixed to the inside of the roof material.

BTW... The passenger side rail needs to be adjusted at the back as it's too low and close to the door top.

The idea is, to raise the roof:

1: Lift the whole rear section until it is upright.

2: Swivel out the side rails and lock in at the screen end.

3: Pull the main roof covering forwards half-way, and clip the centre hoop/support to the side rails.

4: Pull the rest of the roof forwards and lock in place on the screen.

I'm hoping it will work in practice. In theory, and looking at the car and roof etc, it should, but fabric can be a funny thing......

Roy.

Edited January 6, 2014 by roymattblack

[Jockster]

Stunning Roy, and I like the way you have been tackling the problems with the roof. Frustrating for you but a pleasure to follow for the rest of us. As for fabric, how about sailcloth for model boats?

[roymattblack]

Thanks for the Sailcloth idea, but I'm probably going to use the aforementioned jacket.....

The side rails were made using 1.5mm steel rod, bent at each end. The rear end was bent into a somewhat complex shape to clear the vertical supports, be in line with the outside edge of the supports and then follow the shapes of the front and rear doors. The front end has a simple 85 degree bend downwards. Each end locates in polystyrene tubes hidden in the windscreen frames and rear vertical supports, and is a snug fit but still allow movement.

The idea is that the front end of the rails locate in the tubes at the front but can easily be removed, while the rear end of the rail can swivel inwards to move the rails out of the way when the roof is folded down.

The rails were painted a matt beige colour so that if any part of them shows, (which it shouldn’t) it won’t be too noticeable against the roof colour.

The next task was to make a central side-to-side support rail that goes over the top of the middle of the doors. There is no part included in the kit for this if you want to make the convertible roof work, so I’m adapting the central rail from the ‘fixed’ roof frame using another length of steel rod curved downwards at each end.

After trying to work with the kit fixed frame central rail, I abandoned the idea as it was such a poorly moulded and crooked part. One will have to be made from scratch using the steel rod and Plasticard.

In the meantime, I thought back to the days of my old Triumph Spitfire, and the soft top.

The ‘better’ quality replacements and instructions involved webbing straps that ran from front to rear, to help support the fabric over larger unsupported areas.

I copied the idea using beige ribbon I had in my spares box, previously used as 1/8 seat belts in my giant Corvette Stingray.

The ribbon will also solve the problem of equal spacing of all the hood cross rails before the roof fabric is fitted, just as in a real convertible top, as well as supporting the fabric when complete.

Roy.

The supplied 'fixed' roof frame - now not used at all.

Edited January 6, 2014 by roymattblack

[triumphfan]

Tell us the truth Roy. Had the donor jacket reached the end of it's life or did you only buy it last week? lol

Desperate times call for desperate measures!

Some inspirational problem solving going on here.

[roymattblack]

The jacket really is an old one. I don't think my better half would be impressed if I cut up a decent one. The fabric will be used 'inside out' so the best side is uppermost.

The ribbon strapping was first fixed in place using hefty double sided tape to get it fairly taught and even all round. Once this was achieved dots of Cyano adhesive were added at each crossing of a roof support.

The next task was to make a set of paper templates that would work for the roof covering.

The Pocher kit fabric is one piece, cut to fit the roof but looking at the real car, it is actually made of four parts.

One straight part that goes from the rear support hoop to the windscreen, one part from the rear hoop down to the base of the roof rear, and two side parts.

By making my roof in four parts, I hope to vaguely replicate the stitch/assembly pattern of the real one. Here is where my better half Samantha will come in very useful. She can work a sewing machine – I can’t.

I’m going to make a ‘test’ roof using an old piece of bed sheet first, to check the overall fit of everything before making the ‘proper’ soft top.

The central cross support hoop is being made from stiff 1.5mm steel wire, plasticard, and pieces of umbrella metal. Yet to be finished.

Roy.

[Breaker]

Roy, is that a A3 cutting mat it's sat on?

If it, the sheer size of these models has only just hit. Bloody hell!

[roymattblack]

Yes, it's an A3 mat.

The car is 29.5" long........

Roy.

[roymattblack]

Just a small update.

I've made the central roof support rail from steel rod, plasticard and umbrella channel.
It sits on the side rails and is fixed to the strapping, eventually to also be fixed to the soft top.
It will not be fixed to the side rails.

Roy.