dr_gn Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Guys, I have a few questions re. the Boulton Paul Defiant Mk.1 (I’m building the MPM 1:72 kit, thread here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234945752-172-mpm-boulton-paul-defiant-mk1/ 1) On the photograph below, can anyone tell me what the white object in the turret is (circled). It appears to be paper. 2) Also, regarding the access step (circled in red): Is it simply a section of trailing edge fillet that pulls out and then hinges downwards? Were there any other pull-out steps that would have been used? I thought I’d seen an image of a fuselage stub that would be visible if the gunner wasn’t in that photo. 3) Then, the gunsight. I can’t find any photo of a Defiant turret showing the gunsight (presumably because at the time it was classified information?). Nor can I find a picture of a model with it fitted. I think it’s a Mk.IIIa reflector gunsight, possibly attached – somehow- the the circular bracket circled below. Can anyone tell me how the sight was attached and whether it was offset or central? Finally, the turret fairings. I,m modelling it as per the photo above, with the turret turned at 90degrees to the fuselage. I like the look of the Defiant with the fairings ‘up’, even though the majority of photos show the rear one down with the turret in this position. However, it would appear that it would be possible for the fairing to be up in this scenario if you look at 3'23" in the video below: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ce9My4IKydo 4) Assuming this is valid, what position would the front fairing be in, in this scenario? Does anyone have a list of fairing positions vs turret rotation and gun elevation? Many thanks in advance for any information. Cheers. ETA And.. 5) Any photographs / colours of the wheel wells would be great too. It'll be the earth/green/sky scheme. Ta. Edited September 30, 2013 by dr_gn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick b Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) According to 'British Aircraft Armament Vol 1' by R Wallace Clarke, both fairings were automatically operated by compressed air and dropped when the gun barrels approached. I recall reading somewhere that when parked up the turrets were rotated to face forward and so the guns likewise with both fairings up. This excellent book also states that a Mk IIIa reflector gunsight was fitted, illustrations of which can be found in Vol 2 ! If you do a search on the IWM collections site there is an image of the small bar sticking out of the fuselage to allow easier access to the turret. Hope that helps to some extent. Mick Edited September 30, 2013 by mick b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) According to 'British Aircraft Armament Vol 1' by R Wallace Clarke, both fairings were automatically operated by compressed air and dropped when the gun barrels approached. I recall reading somewhere that when parked up the turrets were rotated to face forward and so the guns likewise with both fairings up. This excellent book also states that a Mk IIIa reflector gunsight was fitted, illustrations of which can be found in Vol 2 ! If you do a search on the IWM collections site there is an image of the small bar sticking out of the fuselage to allow easier access to the turret. Hope that helps to some extent. Mick Thanks Mick. I'll check out the IWM site. ETA, yes - here's the picture I remember. I think I can see the gunsight too. Is it a square box with the actual sight glass in a curved housing next to it? If it is, it's also visible in the previous picture I posted. I think that will do for 1:72. Thanks again for the info. Edited September 30, 2013 by dr_gn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Anyone else any info or comments before I have to make some assumptions? Ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Bumping this due to the arrival of the Airfix kit. What color would the wheel wells be in the black night fighter scheme (1941 timeframe) covered by the kit decals? Regards, Murph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Hi turret pic https://www.flickr.com/photos/129042181@N07/16372600356/ cheers jerry Edited February 15, 2015 by brewerjerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Bumping this due to the arrival of the Airfix kit. What color would the wheel wells be in the black night fighter scheme (1941 timeframe) covered by the kit decals? Regards, Murph I believe the wells should in theory be primer green. Inside of doors would be black, as would the upper legs, actuators etc. Lower legs (the unsprung bits) would be aluminium, as would the wheel hubs. I believe the Hendon example had black for everything, but may have been oversprayed at some point in the past while being prepared for display. Like most assertons on this kind of thing, there will always be exceptions to the rule, so unless you have photographic evidence of a particular aircraft at a particular time, it's open season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hi turret pic https://www.flickr.com/photos/129042181@N07/16372600356/ cheers jerry If anyone is considering using a vacform turret top, many people say that a one intended for a Halifax will fit, because it's the same turret. In fact it's not - the Halifax turret didn't have clamshell doors, and the number of glazed rear segments is different. I'd expect an aftermarked vacform canopy will become available soon specifically for the Airfix kit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I believe the wells should in theory be primer green. Inside of doors would be black, as would the upper legs, actuators etc. Lower legs (the unsprung bits) would be aluminium, as would the wheel hubs,The U.K. did not have, or use, a "primer green." Cockpit grey-green was a top coat, painted over one of the primer greys. As early aircraft, like the Hurricane and Typhoon (plus probably the Spitfire) had silver wells, that would seem to point to the Defiant being the same; door interiors were normally silver, too, since the black used for night camouflage was an absolute nightmare to keep pristine, so would only have been painted where it was absolutely necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 The U.K. did not have, or use, a "primer green." Cockpit grey-green was a top coat, painted over one of the primer greys. As early aircraft, like the Hurricane and Typhoon (plus probably the Spitfire) had silver wells, that would seem to point to the Defiant being the same; door interiors were normally silver, too, since the black used for night camouflage was an absolute nightmare to keep pristine, so would only have been painted where it was absolutely necessary. The information I gave was via. the Boulton Paul Association, from when I asked the same question about my Defiant build a couple of years ago. From the rest of the information I got from them, I have absolutley no reason to believe it would be incorrect, although as I said in the next paragraph, there are always exceptions to the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Photographic evidence (such as it is) indictates early Defiants had aluminium painted wheel wells with the insides of the doors (and the undercarraige legs) being either night or white depending on which wing. (That was also how BP painted early Rocs) - there are indications that the door colour carried over when the undersides were repainted Sky. What happened after that (on conversion to nightfighters) is less certain, but again photos seem to show some with black or night door interiors and (and even undercarraige legs) but others with lighter (Sky) legs. These might be Night rather than special Night, or a mix Some examples ROYAL AIR FORCE 1939-1945: FIGHTER COMMAND. © IWM (CH 4607)IWM Non Commercial Licence AIRCRAFT OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE, 1939-1945:BOULTON PAUL P.82 DEFIANT.. © IWM (ATP 9780B)IWM Non Commercial Licence ROYAL AIR FORCE FIGHTER COMMAND, 1939-1945.. © IWM (CH 4810)IWM Non Commercial Licence 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 If anyone is considering using a vacform turret top, many people say that a one intended for a Halifax will fit, because it's the same turret. In fact it's not - the Halifax turret didn't have clamshell doors, and the number of glazed rear segments is different. I'd expect an aftermarked vacform canopy will become available soon specifically for the Airfix kit. Good point: some Halifaxes did use specifically Defiant turrets but these had a raised plinth and as such belong in the book of Halifax variations. However, although kit turrets such as the Revell one can be ruled out because of the wrong framing, is this true of the vacform ones? The actual size, shape and mechanisms remained the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Good point: some Halifaxes did use specifically Defiant turrets but these had a raised plinth and as such belong in the book of Halifax variations. However, although kit turrets such as the Revell one can be ruled out because of the wrong framing, is this true of the vacform ones? The actual size, shape and mechanisms remained the same. I used the Falcon vacform Halifax turret glazing, and the number of segments is still wrong. Since I wanted to depict the turret with open doors, I hacked two turrets about to give the correct number, therefore the frame spacing remains slightly wrong. Nobody would ever notice though, since the doors will never be closed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thank you for the info and pictures. Regards, Murph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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