Navy Bird Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 On 11/5/2013 at 07:21, hacker said: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/B-24-Liberator-Landing-Gear-For-1-72nd-Scale-Hasegawa-Model-SAC-72009-/251361547347?pt=Model_Kit_US&hash=item3a8650d453&_uhb=1 l know it too late now as you got the cockpit done but there was this option by SAC. the whole thing is not only a cockpit but weight as well, it was meant for a different kit but hey could have worked Thanks for this link, I was unaware of that set. I'll keep this in mind for future builds! On 11/11/2013 at 08:32, trickyrich said: it's looking amazing Bill!!!! it's hard to imagine that the base model is over 40 years old!! 48 years old, to be precise - yikes! And I remember when this was a new release! IIRC, it was the second of the "accurate" bombers from Revell, following the B-17. But I could be wrong, I was only 10 or 11 at the time! On 11/11/2013 at 22:32, NavDoc said: Just caught up with this build, Bill-- really impressive ! Inspiring to be able to observe such craftsmanship in progress ! A craftsman? Who let him in here? A daft-man, maybe, but a crafts-man? Hmmm...thanks, Donn! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I've come late to this one too Bill. Respect! Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalako Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Cracking job Bill! I will definitely keep it in my reference archives for use in one of my future builds! Keep up the good work lad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 This is becoming a real work of art Bill. I wish I was feeling well enough to get on with my build as you have really got my mojo fired up with this. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 Thanks, guys! Hey Martin, I know what you mean. You may recall that I've had nine back surgeries, due in part to a wee bit of Stage IV cancer that got into my bones. Right now, my back is bothering me yet again and it is sometimes difficult to concentrate on other things. My way to deal with it is a. narcotics (legal, come on what were you thinking?) b. family (although there are some friends of the family who I'd rather not waste any time with) and c. modelling (of the plastic kind). You gotta do...what you can...when you can. So let's see if we can get everyone's collective mojo firing on all cylinders. I mounted the machine guns to the brackets, leaving off the barrels/cooling jackets until later in the build. Otherwise they'd be sticking out too far and inviting disaster. "Hey Disaster, come on over for a spell! Let's see how much we can break off from inside here - after he's closed up the fuselage! That'll be fun, eh?" I also very carefully formed one of the ammo belts into what I think is an acceptable shape. It extends from the top of the ammo box, and drapes down and back up into the machine gun. From the outside, I think it looks quite nice. Yeah, I know, there are no shells present. I'm modelling the Ghost after she's returned from a mission - no ammo left! Next, I added the oxygen bottles, at least the ones that would be visible. Question for you B-24 addicts: The smaller oxygen bottles are obviously for the gunners at altitude. How about the larger ones that are on the ceiling inside the fuselage? Are these also for the crew, or are these for the plane itself, i.e. controls that operate on compressed air (if there are any)? You'll notice that I added the ammo belt on the port side gun. This was interesting, as I had to secure it to the gun, and make sure it was folded into an appropriate shape so that the other end lines up with the top of the port ammo box once the fuselage halves are joined. I think I did it, but it's kind of hard to tell. It looks lined up peeking in through the starboard waist window with a flashlight, and that's all that counts! Next up, I added the armor plates that mount to the fuselage wall just aft of the waist windows. And I just couldn't resist adding the relief tube! Even though you can't see it once the fuselage is closed. I then went into maximum fiddly mode and added the crosshairs to the guns. All that's left back in the waist area is to finish the window panels, and mount them in the open and stowed position. They were hinged along the top edge of the window opening, and opened inward and upward. This means the outside of the window panel will be showing, and it's painted white and contains a small portion of the US national insignia. So I'll need to work out which portion! Now that I'm getting close to sealing up the fuselage, I need to think about weight. As in, how much is necessary to get this to rest on its wheels and not its tail. First, I taped together the model: She's a tail sitter all right! I grabbed a couple of my ISO calibrated weight standards, and boom - down she goes! I put the paint bottles just aft of the cockpit, since that is where I have room to add weight. Since this is so close to the main gear (the pivot point if you will) it's a lot more weight than if it were up in the nose. I grabbed my scale and weighed the paint bottles. 83 grams! Holy crap! I've never put that much weight into a model before. Obviously, the paint bottles won't fit so it will need to be something else. I reached for my handy fishing weights, and doled out 83 grams worth. Believe it or not, I think this will all fit. I also have room in the engine nacelles, in an area that is about the same distance from the pivot point as the rear of the cockpit. If all else fails, I've got this: That's right, kiddies, it's one kilo of solid lead! Do NOT hit your sister with it! Cheers, Bill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) That's right, kiddies, it's one kilo of solid lead! Do NOT hit your sister with it! That's made my day.....Taken me right back too! Incredible work on the kit BTW! Edited November 18, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 No wonder they had a tail skid! Those ammo belts in particular set the build off. I like the belt starting in mid air. Regards, Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I´m speechless, again. Regards, V-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Thoroughly enjoyed today's update. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Another superb update! Regarding your question about the oxygen bottles... The larger yellow ones (on the roof in the waist area) are part of the low-pressure oxygen system that supplies the whole aircraft and all of the crew positions. The crew members would plug their masks into the outlets at their station, and breathe from the aircraft's main system. If they moved around the aircraft however, they would need an alternative supply, and that's where the smaller bottles you've positioned by the waist windows came into use. These were known as portable oxygen cylinders, and were exactly that. The crew member would disconnect himself from the main supply, and attach his mask to the portable, smaller bottle. He could then remove the bottle from its rack and move around the interior at will. I think, if my memory serves me correctly from previous research, the portable bottles gave about 20 mins supply. Another addional supply was provided as a small 'bail out bottle' which was attached to the crew's flying suit. In the need to bail out at high altitude, this bottle would reduce the risk of the crew member passing out at 25,000+ feet when he lesf the aircraft. I think they only came into use later in the war though. Great build, and just shows what can be done with these old classics! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Cracking work Bill and great to see more progress on this one. Good luck getting all the weight packed in and hope the gear legs are strong enough in the long term. Are you not tempted to build her in-flight on a stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Stunning Bill. I remember painting the desk in my office where I used to work a similar colour to that interior to brighten the place up. Boss was most displeased !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 Hi mates! On 11/17/2013 at 20:56, Sgt.Squarehead said: That's made my day.....Taken me right back too! Incredible work on the kit BTW! Thanks! Luckily I didn't have a sister, so my chunk of lead was never used. Plus, I have no idea where it came from, but I've had it for years. I slice off pieces to use as ballast in models. You can see in the photo that much of it is missing (one little slice at a time!) On 11/17/2013 at 21:03, AdrianMF said: No wonder they had a tail skid! Those ammo belts in particular set the build off. I like the belt starting in mid air. The one that starts in air does look a bit odd, doesn't it? I think a snake charmer has been at work! It lines up with the ammo box when you put the fuselage halves together, but it took a while to get just the right bends. On 11/18/2013 at 01:23, vppelt68 said: I´m speechless, again. Regards, V-P Thanks - no need to be speechless though, speak away! Especially if I do something silly on the model. On 11/18/2013 at 03:39, martin hale said: Thoroughly enjoyed today's update. Martin Thanks, Martin! I hope you're feeling better. Have a pint on me! On 11/18/2013 at 05:22, tomprobert said: Another superb update! Regarding your question about the oxygen bottles... <snip> Great build, and just shows what can be done with these old classics! Thanks Tom! It's not quite up to the level of your builds, but I keep trying! A lot of these old kits are quite accurate shape-wise, and if you're willing to spend some time and add the detail they can be quite nice. And thanks for the information on the oxygen system, that makes perfect sense. On 11/18/2013 at 11:34, Col. said: Cracking work Bill and great to see more progress on this one. Good luck getting all the weight packed in and hope the gear legs are strong enough in the long term. Are you not tempted to build her in-flight on a stand? Thanks Col.! I thought about an in-flight model, but I have all that cool PE to show off in the wheel wells! Eduard says you have to use it if you buy it. I think all the weight will fit. I already chopped off a big piece of lead, and since it's so malleable, I can shape it somewhat to fit the area inside the fuselage. I think the main gear won't be a problem, but the nose gear might. If she collapses, I can fix that easily. Unbeknownst to my fellow modellers, I beefed up the front gear a bit by adding some additional triangulation. Then I put the two ISO calibrated weight standards on top of it. It held the weight, short term anyway! On 11/18/2013 at 12:44, woody37 said: Stunning Bill. I remember painting the desk in my office where I used to work a similar colour to that interior to brighten the place up. Boss was most displeased !! You painted your desk Zinc Chromate Yellow? Sounds like a Lifer Lamey to me! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 On 11/24/2013 at 17:37, hacker said: Hmmm...tumbling tumbleweeds...you want me to do a figure of Roy Rogers? Oh, maybe you mean there's dust piling up on my project... Ah, well, I got a lot of work done today after shoveling my driveway. Pictures soon! Cheers, Bill PS. I swear I remember one of my back doctors telling me to stop shoveling the driveway. I think it was right after number 2 of 9 back surgeries...maybe he was on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 OK, let's see what Uncle Navy Bird's been up to. No good, I can assure you! Eduard provides some nice photoetch that can be used in place of the kit waist gunner windows. The window is a clear film that is sandwiched between two panels, which you have to bend to match the curvature of the fuselage. I carefully measured the decal position (i.e. eyeballed it) and then cut it to the shape required. After gluing everything together, I think it looks pretty good. Only the outside of the panel will be seen, so I have no idea why I painted the inside Zinc Chromate. It's an addiction, I guess! The two small protrusions on each window are bent in half, and represent the hinges. It also gives you a small, but usable gluing surface. Here are the windows in place inside the fuselage. I used some pastels to weather the white paint. The nose gear doors on the PB4Y-1 opened inward, and I decided to simply use the kit's gear doors. I suspect that few folks will be peaking their eyes in here anyway, and I've got to get this fuselage closed up or I'll run out of time. I painted them white, added some pastels, and glued them inside the nose gear bay. I next turned my attention to the engines and propellers. Something has bugged me about the kit parts right from the beginning - the prop is too far away from the front of the cowling. Here is what you get with the kit: I had a good look through the Detail & Scale book, and this is definitely not right. Looking more closely at the front engine cover you can see that Revell added in some extra detail that is causing the problem. A quick little zip of the razor saw, and it looks more like the photos. Before on the left, after on the right. Now the prop sets a bit better: Speaking of props, I'm not sure if I need to replace the kit props or not. They look reasonably good compared to the Academy props, but I have no idea if Academy got them right or not. Quickboost make resin props for the B-24D, both for the Academy and Hasegawa kits. Has anyone used those? Are they any big errors in the Academy props? Here is a comparison of Revell (blue) and Academy (grey). Now for the part I'm not looking forward to. Weighting this lady down so she sets on her legs, and not her tail. Rather than bore you with the whole story, let's just say that it involved a lot of trial and error as well as a lot of masking tape. Believe it or not, what you are about to see is the result - this is how much weight it needs. First, in the engine nacelles, because there is not enough room in the fuselage: Then, inside the fuselage - when I realized how much had to go in here, I decided to add a panel that covered up the "doorway" from the flight deck to the radio room. This is painted flat black on the side facing the cockpit. I had to put that there or it might be possible to see the weights from the outside. I suspect I'll paint the weights flat black before closing her up. Looks rather ugly, eh? Not to worry, this will all be covered up and no one will be able to see it. Come to think of it, no one will be able to see all the detail I've put inside the fuselage either!! The weights are glued in with five-minute epoxy, and I really hope they stay put. I also glued in the front nose gear, I think I may add some additional epoxy in places that won't be easily seen. But it is stronger than it looks. Next up will be the rest of the small windows that are in the fuselage. These have been dipped in Future, and will be glued in from the inside with CA cement. I'm using the kit parts, they're not the best but they'll do. It's not important to be able to see clearly through them, they're just too small. The top turret in the kit has the shape that's right for the PB4Y-1, but it's too tall - even taller than the Martin "High Boy" turret on later marks of the B-24. I cut the turret from its lower flange, so I can reduce its height. I'll glue the flange into the fuselage (last thing to go in before we close her up) - then I can add the turret itself at any time later. It will also give me a nice round hole in the top of the fuselage right above the weight room - just in case it needs more!!!!! Crazy, huh? Yikes.... Cheers, Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedman Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I don't know if it's my eyes going a bit funny but in both photos of the prop fitted to the engine, the prop looks slightly offset from the centreline. In the first it's slightly to the left, in the second photo it's to the right and a bit more noticeable. I'm wondering if it's slightly misaligned along the seam? This build just keeps amazing me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Amazing is a useful word for describing this build.....Brilliant would be another, Edited November 25, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 One of these unbelievable builds in this GB! Ancient Liberators, Blenheims, Heinkels etc. built the way no-one ever dared to dream of. Except those few that have had the vision. On the other hand, on behalf of all modellers who ever built or will build a Flying Fortress I want to thank The Boeing Company for choosing a tail wheel arrangement when they designed and built the B-17! Bill! Regards, V-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient mariner Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Enough already Im starting to hate you!!! the makings of a truly outstanding build 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 On 11/25/2013 at 05:00, Speedman said: I don't know if it's my eyes going a bit funny but in both photos of the prop fitted to the engine, the prop looks slightly offset from the centreline. In the first it's slightly to the left, in the second photo it's to the right and a bit more noticeable. I'm wondering if it's slightly misaligned along the seam? This build just keeps amazing me I'll check that out. It should be easy to see if the hole for the prop is centered relative to the engine opening (which is circular). I wonder if the engine opening is also centered in the outside dimensions of the cowling (which is elliptical)? I suppose it's possible that the elliptical nature of the cowling (coupled with some distortion from the close-up lens of the camera) is creating an optical illusion. Oh well, another thing to add to the list! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I wonder if the engine opening is also centered in the outside dimensions of the cowling (which is elliptical)? I suppose it's possible that the elliptical nature of the cowling (coupled with some distortion from the close-up lens of the camera) is creating an optical illusion. I thought that at first, but it looks more like the props aren't centred on their shafts. Edited November 25, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hi Bill Thanks for taking the photos of all the weights, if you had just told us I don't think anyone would have appreciated just how much you were talking about, or the ingenious places for hiding them. The crosshairs on the guns is a blatant bit of showing off how good your eyesight is while some of us realise that 1/48 scale offers the only hope to see what we're doing ! Can i ask did all the crew have to huddle in the cockpit during taxiing takeoff and landings to prevent grinding away at the rear turret ? Cheers Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Just got a Catalina to sit on it's nosewheel. I feel your pain at the amount of weight. Is the u/c going to be strong enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I'd be wondering about the nose gear in particular. If you ever reduce the model to spares you'll get a decent steak dinner for the scrap value. Your work so far is amazing, I'm very impressed and rather jealous. I think the end result is going to be incredible. Edited November 25, 2013 by SleeperService Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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