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1:72 Consolidated PB4Y-1 Liberator


Navy Bird

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On 10/19/2013 at 07:51, AdrianMF said:

You are transforming that kit! The nose wheel assembly looks great, although I worry about how strong it might be.

Regards,

Adrian

 

Me too! I think I'll dip it in superglue before I paint it. Although the plastic rods I used were rather small diameter (to achieve proper scale), there is a bit of triangulation that should strengthen the assembly. I could add more triangulation I suppose, and try to hide it.

 

The unknown for me is how much ballast is necessary to prevent the model from being a tail-sitter. That ballast will be right behind the front gear! I can't really put any out front in the nose, where you get the best "leverage" effect, so it will have to go right behind the cockpit bulkhead. Since that is closer to the main gear, more weight will be necessary.

 

Or I could just have the tail skid sitting on a barrel... :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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You are doing such a cracking job on this old kit Bill,

I`ll be following this with interest and cannot wait to see it finished,

Keep up the great work,

Tony O

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Not much time for modelling today, but I did manage to start work on the inside of the fuselage at the waist gunner's station. The Revell kit has no detail here at all, and since the waist gunner's windows are rather large, and those pesky contest judges will be shining their pretentious little flashlights inside, well I guess we'll have to add some detail.

 

I decided to add some structural detail to the sidewalls, no doubt in a completely unauthentic manner. It's what I do best! A while back I had removed all of the moulded-in stuff that came with the kit, and filled a few spots left by my Dremel tool. I envisioned what the walls would look like in my mind's eye (i.e. I had a look in the Detail & Scale book), and then proceeded to "wing it" and do something completely different.

 

100_4139

 

I think this much is sufficient. I don't really need to extend this any further forward or aft, as you would really have to crane your head to see that far in once the fuselage is assembled. I'll need to add a floor, and the gun mounts, as well as a bunch of cool PE stuff from the Eduard set, ammo boxes and such. This area will be painted Zinc Chromate Puke, er, I mean, Yellow, and it will need to be weathered a bit. I'm a firm believer that these areas were painted in that colour as extra motivation for the gunners to do a good job, thereby enabling the mission to be completed quickly so everyone could get back to base and get out of that airplane! But then again, if the gunners didn't do a good job, everyone was probably getting out anyway.

 

Without planning anything intentionally, the two sides match up pretty well:

 

100_4141

 

Hopefully I can spend most of tomorrow locked away in the studio, beyond the reach of wives, children, and dogs so some serious modelling can be done. We'll see...

 

Cheers,

Bill

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l am pretty sure that area was left bare but l will check my references.

Hopefully I can spend most of tomorrow locked away in the studio, beyond the reach of wives, children, and dogs so some serious modelling can be done. We'll see...

Cheers,

Bill

If you figured a way to do that let me know. weekends is suppose to be my time but as soon as l pick up a piece to work on l get called by the wife

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Me too! I think I'll dip it in superglue before I paint it. Although the plastic rods I used were rather small diameter (to achieve proper scale), there is a bit of triangulation that should strengthen the assembly. I could add more triangulation I suppose, and try to hide it.

The unknown for me is how much ballast is necessary to prevent the model from being a tail-sitter. That ballast will be right behind the front gear! I can't really put any out front in the nose, where you get the best "leverage" effect, so it will have to go right behind the cockpit bulkhead. Since that is closer to the main gear, more weight will be necessary.

Or I could just have the tail skid sitting on a barrel... :)

Cheers,

Bill

Cheers,

Bill

I believe it was a .50 Cal ammo box that the crews used, as the Liberalr has very finely ballanced on it's main wheels.

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On 10/27/2013 at 01:01, hacker said:

l am pretty sure that area was left bare but l will check my references.

 

If you mean the colour, than you're right that this area was left natural metal, but that is seen mostly on the aircraft that were unpainted overall. On the B-24D this area was Zinc Chromate Yellow, and there are some great colour photos in the Detail & Scale book. Those were taken on the inside of Strawberry Bitch at the USAF museum before she was repainted. So they represent the original finish from the factory.

 

If you mean how much equipment was back here, then it was mostly ammo boxes, gun mounts, oxygen cylinders, etc.

 

4082205134_dc56dc232e_z

 

The most interesting part is the relief tube, which is mounted on the port wall just forward of the waist gunner position (just out of sight on this photo). I should add that just for fun! :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Almost a shame you went to all the effort on the undercarriage or you could have modelled her in-flight with the relief tube in use :lol:

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Hi mates,

 

Well, I dutifully followed my references and painted the aft interior fuselage in the lovely aforementioned Chromate Yellow Primer, albeit with crude attempts at bespoke weathering:

 

100_4142

 

All I can imagine when viewing this tapestry is a pre-flight meal of chicken mullet and biscuit stew, partaken at perhaps too hasty a pace, then shaken violently in North Sea turbulence, only to be ultimately spewed forth like Vesuvius itself on the unsuspecting aluminum walls. But if that's what Uncle Sam thinks our unselfish and courageous gunners deserve to be staring at all mission long, far be it from me to think otherwise! No wonder the windows opened wide - at least the flight crew got interior green for their own little piece of heaven!

 

Next it's time to populate the B-24, er PB4Y, waist with all sorts of skullduggery, like ammo boxes, machine guns, and ammo chutes:

 

Starboard Waist Gunner

 

Oh, and I suppose that floor might be nice, too!

 

I've just placed an order for some resin accessories to include the .50 cal Brownings (really can't use the guns that came with the kit), the oxygen cylinders, and the anti-submarine radome which will take the place of the belly turret. I probably should have also ordered new props, in fact I expect I shall before this build is finished. By the time I get done, this $1.00 kit will end up costing more than the Hasegawa version!

 

Well, no, not really, because I probably would have bought all this aftermarket stuff for it as well! That's probably where that Big Ed set came from to begin with! I was most likely "anticipating" the need should I ever acquire the Hasegawa kit. Looking at my stash, I've done a bit of anticipating over the years!

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Looking at my stash, I've done a bit of anticipating over the years!

I love that comment I'll have to use it on the wife.

"See dear I bought this because I'm anticipating future group builds and trying to save money!" :whistle:

Either i'll end up with a huge stash or a clout! :P

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So, where were we? We were musing about the lack of a floor for the poor waist gunners, so let's see if we can do something about that. From the photos I've seen, it appears the floor was partially a grate of some kind, perhaps to allow things to fall through so the gunners wouldn't trip. Or for water to drain - heck, I don't know it just looks like a grate in the pictures!

 

I first made a solid floor from sheet styrene, making sure it was the right shape to get captured between the fuselages without interference. Then I used some thinner sheet to make a central floor, and some small diameter styrene rod to make the rods in the "grate." Like so:

 

100_4144

 

Amazingly enough, the size and shape of the floor is almost identical to the piece from my Academy B-24J kit (indeed, that's what I used for reference!). Going back to the photos, there is a step up to a higher level that covers the ball turret, or in my case, the antisubmarine radar. This area will just barely be seen through the waist windows, and even then you're going to sprain your neck. So I decided not to do any crazy detailing here - like for instance the retraction mechanism which protrudes through this higher floor on planes fitted with the ball turret. I have no idea what was used for the radar, maybe they used the same mechanism, maybe not.

 

I also scratch built the gun supports from thin styrene rod and attached them to the proper location on the floor so the guns will be in the center of the window. Eduard has some cute little PE brackets to hold the guns onto the supports - I'll add those later after I fit them to the guns. So here is what I came up with for the floor:

 

100_4147

 

Eduard provides a large piece of ribbed PE to go over the floor above the ball turret, so I figured I'd use it. I have no idea whatsoever if it's accurate or not, but you really won't see it. I decided to leave that piece unpainted (other than a flat varnish to come at the end) to add some contrast. Everything else got painted with my favorite Chromate Yellow:

 

100_4151

 

Note the PE brackets for the ammo boxes. Incredibly fiddly, these will be mounted on the fuselage wall forward of the waist windows, and the ammo boxes will set on top of them. Speaking of ammo boxes, Eduard supplies those, and these were much easier to fold up. The other pieces shown here go beneath the waist windows and appear a dark red-brown in photos (as do the ammo boxes). I suspect these are wooden pieces on the actual aircraft.

 

100_4149

 

There are additional brackets that are added to the long pieces; these lock the gun in position when it is swung over to the window. I'll be painting all of these parts today.

 

The postman was so kind as to deliver some more resin yesterday, including a gaggle of oxygen bottles (I'll only use these in places where you can see them) and - drum roll - the antisubmarine radar. Now I won't have to scratch build it! Good old Quickboost, you never know what they have up their sleeve. Well, you would if you actually looked at their catalog once in a while!

 

100_4153

 

Since my model will be depicted on the ground, the radar will be retracted (like you see in the picture). Quickboost designed it so you can also show it extended.

 

Today I'll try to get the floor weathered and mounted onto the fuselage and start putting the PE details in place. I also ordered a set of .50 cal Browning machine guns (in resin) which I'll use instead of what is supplied in the kit (which only resemble machine guns in the academic sense). Well, maybe I'll try to get that done - it appears the missus has just arrived with a honey-do list. Drat!

 

Cheers,

Bill

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I admire!

With all those resin and plastic bits added "back" there I guess you´ll need a lot more weigh up "front" too - not that easy with all the clear plastic in there? EDIT: I re-checked the build from the beginning and it looks like most of the resin is pretty well balanced around the COG. Did the Real Thing also have some sort of jack/stand under its tail or what´s that piece in the old photos?

Regards, V-P

Edited by vppelt68
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On 11/4/2013 at 07:12, vppelt68 said:

I admire!

With all those resin and plastic bits added "back" there I guess you´ll need a lot more weigh up "front" too - not that easy with all the clear plastic in there? EDIT: I re-checked the build from the beginning and it looks like most of the resin is pretty well balanced around the COG. Did the Real Thing also have some sort of jack/stand under its tail or what´s that piece in the old photos?

Regards, V-P

 

Thanks, V-P! I think you are referring to the tail skid or tail bumper?

 

Beginning with B-24D, serial number 23640, a retractable tail skid was installed. It was hydraulically activated, and swung downward in an arc of approximately 70 degrees. On B-24D aircraft prior to the above serial number a tail bumper was used. It consisted of twelve streamlined rubber pads that extended vertically downward.

 

The purpose of both the tail skid and tail bumper was to protect the belly turret from hitting the ground during landing or in case of a sudden shift of weight aft. Interestingly, the tail bumper assembly was usually torn out of the fuselage if it should happen to drag during landing.

 

There are many photos of parked B-24 aircraft which show the tail skid resting on top of an ammo box, small barrel, or jack stand. I can only surmise that the empty aircraft must have been very precisely balanced, and could rock backward with a good wind (much like an empty F7F Tigercat is often shown parked resting on its tail).

 

Aircraft equipped with the tail skid could also be landed with the tail low, for instance if the nose gear was not deployed or had been damaged in combat. Later, B-24J and above aircraft operating in the PTO had a tail wheel substituted for the tail skid.

 

The PB4Y-1 (4 by 1) that I'm modelling is essentially a B-24D. Since the "Gallopin' Ghost" had a serial number of 40566, it has a tail skid, which is included in the Revell kit.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. So far, the only resin going into the rear of the aircraft will be a few oxygen cylinders and the guns. Not a lot of weight there. The rest of the detailing in the rear is styrene and photoetch. But there will still need to be a lot of weight up front - Hasegawa recommends 90g in their B-24D kit! I have no idea where it's going to go...

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That's (the tailskid) exactly what I meant, thank you for the information :-) It's the anti-sub radar dome that I thought would be heavy. Very young V-P built the Revell B-24D about 35 years ago but I can hardly recognize these as being the same kits... wow.

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Thanks V-P! Since the radar dome is going to be modelled in the retracted position, I can remove quite a bit of the resin. Think of the piece as a cylinder with a hemisphere on one end - I can remove all of the cylinder. The remaining pieces don't weigh much more than the plastic parts from the kit that make up the belly turret.

 

Still thinking about where to put that 90g! I could, of course, fill up the engine nacelles, but since they're so much closer to the main gear, it will mean a lot more weight. What's that whole fulcrum balance formula thing? Weight times distance, right? To get the same effect, twice the weight at half the distance.

 

So, one pound (for us metric-challenged Yanks) is about 454g. So 90g is almost 0.2lb. Yikes! That is a bit of weight - that would mean almost about a half a pound or more in the engine nacelles. Maybe that jack stand is not a bad idea...

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. I can assure you that it's the same kit from 1965! Last released by Revell US in 1990, believe it or not.

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Great start, Bill- I recall the work that went into sanding off the rivets on the Monogram Grumman Albatross-- but it made all the difference: turned a toy kit into a realistic model - Go for it !!

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http://www.ebay.ca/itm/B-24-Liberator-Landing-Gear-For-1-72nd-Scale-Hasegawa-Model-SAC-72009-/251361547347?pt=Model_Kit_US&hash=item3a8650d453&_uhb=1

l know it too late now as you got the cockpit done but there was this option by SAC. the whole thing is not only a cockpit but weight as well, it was meant for a different kit but hey could have worked

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On 11/6/2013 at 00:08, martin hale said:

There is some inspirational stuff occurring here Bill!

Martin

 

Inspiring? More like perspiring! After having a go with this kit for a few weeks, I think I'd rather try one of those shake-and-bake things! :)

 

Not a lot of modelling this weekend, as my son was in town with granddaughter number one, so they could see my daughter and granddaughter number two! Family - don't they know there's a deadline? But I did manage to do some work.

 

100_4155

 

I made a styrene piece to use as a new bulkhead between the landing gear bay and the bomb aimer's department. This is just the start of some additional detailing that is needed up front. I'll be copying using the Hasegawa kit instructions and the Detail & Scale book to figure out what is needed. It's not obvious to me that there is a solid bulkhead here (Hasegawa show it as such), but it might come in handy to block the view of some added weight.

 

I also spent some time getting the floor mounted for the waist gunners. I added the brackets for the Brownings, and the ammo boxes on the walls.

 

100_4156

 

100_4158

 

I will be adding the guns themselves, the rear armor plates, oxygen bottles, and the ammo belts. Speaking of the latter, Revell did not include that with the kit, so it's off to the Big Ed PE set we go! And, of course, Ed has supplied them, but as usual you have to fold them up. One you've folded them, you get to twist them so they droop naturally from the ammo box to the gun. I got the first folds done (it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be) but the twisting part...hmmm. Methinks I'll only get one chance at that!

 

100_4154

 

That's it for now - the compressor is pumped up and I feel the urge to go paint something!

 

Cheers,

Bill

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