johnd Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Evenin' all... I'm away from home at the moment and passing my evenings building an Airfix starter kit, the new tooling P40b. I expected middle stone and dark earth over azure blue for this model (Neville Duke's 112 Sqn GA-F). Airfix have supplied Hu93 to represent the mid stone - does that sound ok? I thought that was supposed to represent 8th Army Desert Yellow. Was there something different about this particular aircraft so that Hu225 wasn't appropriate? I know that building starter kits is supposed to recapture the excitement of lost youth and I shouldn't care but it isn't working. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Some of the starter set paints can be a bit weird but 93's not a bad match for Middle Stone. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 Ok, thanks, I'll slop some on then. It just struck me as odd that they didn't supply 225 when that's actually listed as Middle Stone. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 For some reason, in addition to the recent 225 which is distinctly more yellow, Humbrol offer a surfeit of closely related ochres - 83 Matt Ochre, 84 Matt Mid Stone, 93 Matt Desert Yellow and 94 Matt Brown Yellow all of which are like variations on a single theme. I haven't tested it but 93 strikes me as being similar to MAP Light Earth. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I haven't tested it but 93 strikes me as being similar to MAP Light Earth. Nick I'd agree with this. When I was looking for a Light Earth match a while back to use on a gGrand Slam Lanc I'd just picked up, I found 93 to be fairly close to the LE in the chips in the RAF Museum book, I thought it maybe needed a little Dark Earth to tone it down but have not tried that as yet, Lanc still on back burner & I think I'll do the wartime one for which I'll go with DE/DG uppers. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'm not sure they've ever put 225 in the little 3ml pots. The situation with all these light yellow browns is a strange one and i assume goes back to the integration of the old Authentic line into the standard paint range. If 93 is meant to be the old "8th Army Desert Yellow", shouldn't it be BS381 Light Stone? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Careful John, before you know it someone will mention fading & scale effect & then gracious, where could that end up? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 93 is indeed mentioned as the replacement for 8th Army Desert Yellow from the Military Vehicles set, 94 for both German Pale Yellow from World War 1 Aircraft and British Rail Interior Paint Stone from the Railway Authentics (!), and 83 for German Overall Sand from World War II and Post War Tanks. 84 was at one time presumably intended to be Middle Stone although quite dark and greyish for that? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 93 is indeed mentioned as the replacement for 8th Army Desert Yellow from the Military Vehicles set, 94 for both German Pale Yellow from World War 1 Aircraft and British Rail Interior Paint Stone from the Railway Authentics (!), and 83 for German Overall Sand from World War II and Post War Tanks. 84 was at one time presumably intended to be Middle Stone although quite dark and greyish for that? Nick The old Authetic Middle Stone was pretty bad, maybe not a far off as the Azure Blue but it gave a very low contrast with Dark Earth. I remember having to give it a good dose of 24 Trainer Yellow to get it looking resaonable. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I had one of the small pots of 93 lying around my classroom so I've done a quick brush-out and compared it to the RAFM chart. This pot of 93 is a golden brown that's a bit too dark and not quite yellow enough for Light Earth, more so for Middle Stone. The nearest RAL I can find is 8000 but that's too dark. If RAL 1036 wasn't metallic it would be about right. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Thanks folks. I've decided not to use the Hu93. Luckily there's an LMS near where I'm staying and they sold me a bottle of Vallejo Model Air 71.031 that looks a better shade ( though it's not covering well). I'm sure there's a knack. John. PS Isn't Hu119 meant to be Light Earth? Or is that the US version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 PS Isn't Hu119 meant to be Light Earth? Or is that the US version? I've always taken it to be the Tan in the USAF South-East Asia scheme. Marginally a little pink for Light Earth, to my failing eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 118 is USAF Vietnam Tan. Wasn't 119 Light Earth originally meant to represent an Israeli colour? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 In Humbrol's Colour System for Authentics "Israeli Air Force Contemporary" Earth they say to use 118 and for (Israeli) Middlestone to use 121. They also say to use 118 for Upper Surface Tan FS 30219 in "US Air Force Vietnam". Can't see any 'Authentics' use for 119. 120 is Light Green so I'm guessing that 119 was perhaps originally intended for RAF/MAP Light Earth. My tin of 119 is ancient - circa 1978-80 - but it does not look as "pink" as this, being more yellowish:- http://www.andysmodels.me.uk/models/Airfix_BF109_001.htm I have two tins of 118, one from 1984 and one post-2002 and they are also quite different in appearance. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 According to Humbrol's own conversion chart: 118 - FS30215 119 - FS30219 120 - FS34227 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I've always remembered that 118 is the USAF SEA scheme tan colour whilst 119 was for the Israeli scheme. H116,117 and 118 for the SEA uppers with 129 for the lower, whilst for the Israeli scheme it was 119, 120, 121 uppers and 122 for the bottom. H122 was discontinued ages ago - apparently it's not a bad match for RAAF sky blue, but that's another conversation! A bit OT, but that's what I can remember of the distinction between 118 and 119. Mike. Edited September 17, 2013 by MikeR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I've always remembered that 118 is the USAF SEA scheme tan colour whilst 119 was for the Israeli scheme. H116,117 and 118 for the SEA uppers with 129 for the lower, whilst for the Israeli scheme it was 119, 120, 121 uppers and 122 for the bottom. H122 was discontinued ages ago. A bit OT, but that's what I can remember of the distinction between 118 and 119. Mike. That's what I thought too. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEMPESTMK5 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Good morning guys John I am actually bulding the same aircraft and all this discussion is very interesting .. I have a question what do you think about the blue ? according to the notice AIRFIX says to paint underside of this aircraft in Azure Blue 157 , I find this Blue very dark , was the real aircraft painted with such dark underside ? or shoul I use instead Blue 65 or a mix of these 2 references ? .. Patrice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Everything you could ever want to know about Humbrol 157: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/51881-blue-blue-my-love-is-azure-blue-now-with-the-new-humbrol-157/page-1?hl=azure John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEMPESTMK5 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Thank you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Basically, the pot of 157 supplied by Airfix is hopeless. I tried lightening it with white but ended up with light grey. In the end I bought a bottle of Vallejo's Model Color Azure which is still a little dark but a lot, lot better. The above mentioned thread on 157 is well worth reading. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEMPESTMK5 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Hello John Thanks a lot ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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