phat trev Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Having been considering upgrading my new airfix 109 to a F version but not so sure of what may need to be changed (apart from the nose) Now I am now thinking of what types might be made and the alterations needed for other Emil Variants. can anyone help in outlining some of the changes needed? An E-1 or very late E could be interesting- looking to create somthing a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 A fair bit is need to change an E to an F. Not just the nose. The wing tips, wing span, different shape to u/c wells, supercharger intake, remove tailplane support struts, add fish plates to tail section, different canopy - just off the top of my head, others will tell you more details An E3/4 can be backdated to an E1 by removing the cannon and magazine bulges, and a different canopy. E6 and E9 photo recon can be made easily, with little addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck1945 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Not worth the effort to make a 'F' from an 'E'. As Black Knight said, you pretty much have to rebuild everything except the fuselage from the front of the cockpit back to where the tail begins. If you want an inexpensive 'F', get the newish Zvezda kit. Depending which boxing of the Airfix 'E' you have (E-3 or E-4/7) you can make any E variant with little difficulty. The E-3 can convert to an E-1 by removing the wing cannon and assorted bulges. The rounded canopy (E-3 kit) changed to a squared off one on the E-4, but that canopy was also refitted to both E-3s and even some E-1s still in service, Likewise the rounded canopy was also seen on some E-4s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Getting a Zvezda kit is a much more sensible solution.....Of if you are feeling flush there's Finemolds and for the brave there's A-Model. Edited September 12, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Having been considering upgrading my new airfix 109 to a F version but not so sure of what may need to be changed (apart from the nose) Now I am now thinking of what types might be made and the alterations needed for other Emil Variants. can anyone help in outlining some of the changes needed? An E-1 or very late E could be interesting- looking to create somthing a bit different. Different? Extend the wing tips and make a Bf 109T, designed for carrier use, they were used in Norway. Have a google. I don't 'do' 1/72, so there probably is one, but the new tips could be made from thick plastic card and some modelling skill... There were details of this in a late 70's era Airfix Modelling guide.... your other different is markings, eg Romanian, Bulgarian, Slovak, Swiss, Spanish, Yugoslav.. HTH T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton78 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 It would be far more interesting to upgrade your E series kit to an F-1. The F-1 used many of the Bf109E's features although having the new elements also. It had the Bf109E wing root which would be the real problem if you wanted to say create any F series variant after the F-1. The wing root detail is usually moulded into the fuselage sides on a Bf109 kit so changing this from the E wing root to the F-2 + wing root would be a major pain in the bottom. Whereas the F-1 would stay as is out of the box. I believe most of the cockpit stayed the same on the F-1 possibly even using the same seat as opposed to that seen in the F-2 onwards. Minor adjustments to the canopy?, tail area, and of course the rounded wing tips. Essentially the F-1 was a Bf109E airframe with the new F series components added on. The lack of photographic evidence makes it difficult to know exactly what else the E series and the F-1 shared. I can think of no better livery either, than Werner Mölders' Bf109F-1 WNr.5628 SG+GW with 55 Victory tabs on the tail that he was flying around Kent and sussex during October 1940. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The F wing is not just an E wing with round wingtips,as partly discussed above. Amongst other things, the radiators are very different. I agree that a T is the way to go for a different look, but you also have to look at the air intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton78 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Yes Graham, I thought that the different radiator would have been common knowledge. Perhaps I should have said, whole new wing design but the wing root was the same as the E series. I don't think I've ever seen anyone correctly model an F-1 yet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 It's certainly not a detail I was aware of, thanks for that. The radiator just wasn't mentioned previously: clearly it wasn't known to the original poster. The aileron is also different, possibly also the flaps? As the man said- rear fuselage only, all else is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 sticking with an E type (not jaguar!) and building my Heller version thanks guys. Just to deside on what E. I like the sound of a Spanish E(was there any photo-recce Spanish Emils?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton78 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) As the man said- rear fuselage only, all else is new. Yes essentially, but there are just no where near enough photos of confirmed F-1s that show enough of the aircraft to be sure which parts are still E and which parts were new F-1 components. I still think it would be cool grafting some F-2 bits onto an E series fuselage. Edited September 12, 2013 by Clinton78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 Anyone know what E variant Walter Nowotny may have flown? and what they or it would have looked like (markings) just exploring avenues for my model. I may be correct in stating that his first 24 (or so) kills were in an Emil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabat Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Probably a Bf109E-7, as he joined JG54 in December 1940. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton78 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Bf109E-7 (WNr.1137) "White 2" Originally built as an E-3 by Erla. He claimed his first two victories in this aircraft on 19th July over Ösel Island (Russian I-153 biplanes). During the same engagement Nowotny was himself shot down by Alexandr Avdeev in an I-153 over Riga Bay. Aircraft 100% lost with Nowotny spending three days and nights in a dinghy. So his E-7 would have had no victory tabs by this point. Being an upgraded E-3 could mean one of two things. It either looked like it had some previous use with painted out old unit markings and codes, re-mottled etc or it looked pretty fresh and new after being upgraded and totally repainted/re-marked at a depot? I'm unsure if any photos exist. Edit: He was serving with Stabsschwarm of Ergänzungsgruppe/JG54 when this incident took place. No doubt he was given a replacement aircraft for him to score his third victory on the 8th August 1941 over an I-15. What E series that was I don't know. Not sure when the unit got the F either. Edited September 13, 2013 by Clinton78 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabat Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 According to the John Weal 'Jagdgeschwader 54 'Grunherz' ' publication (Osprey Aviation Elite Units), JG54's II and III Gruppe gave their Emils to JG77 in May and received Friederichs on 3 May. I Gruppe remained under temporary command of JG1 and protected the North Sea, still in Emils. I Gruppe started converting to Friederichs by mid May 1941 at Jever. By 20 June 1941 JG54 was reunited and was centered around Gumbinnen, prior to Barbarossa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton78 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Nowotny was with the training staffel so they most probably retained their Emils for longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabat Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Nowotny was with the training staffel so they most probably retained their Emils for longer?It would seem you are correct: John Weal goes on to say that as part of the 1.(Einsatz) Staffel (flying Emils - I think we can take it by this time they were E-7's with white spinners), Nowotny was flying White 2 when he got his two I-153's on 19 July 1941, on his 24th operational mission.He then had a Beriev MBR-2 and DB-3 bomber on 31 July 1941. Edit: On this website, http://www.battleofbritainaviationart.com/battle_of_britain_aces.php?PilotID=80 ,it lists Nowotny's kills and it seems he was with the Erganzungsgruppe until at least 8 January 1942. No mention of when they got Friederichs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton78 Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Bit different to the victory list here. Always difficult knowing which ones are correct from the net. I would suspect any that appear in the Jochen Prien works would be the accurate ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabat Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Bit different to the victory list here. Always difficult knowing which ones are correct from the net. I would suspect any that appear in the Jochen Prien works would be the accurate ones. Indeed! Ah well, I blame the Internet! But interesting nonetheless to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 It is very hard to find anything on Nowotny's early flights so thankyou for the details given here. Interest has turned to this aircraft he flew and scored his first kills in. Bf109 E7 'White 2' and what colours, scheme and markings it may have carried. I like the thought that it may well have been an upgraded airframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCZ Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 What ?! Fridrich is a total different aircraft as Emil. Buy excellent Zvezda's Bf 109F-2 and you can may be happy It's cheap and very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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