sloegin57 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 ....I've finished the rear side walls with the gunners shelving housing the radio and avionics gear. Why didn't you just nick one from a redundant B-29 ? !!. Thats what the Soviets did and if its good enough for Mother Russia.............. ........... Andy Kuznetsov at Scalemodels.ru sent me a huge file copy of the original 3M factory manuals yesterday.... Sticky tape factory ?!, Building nuclear bombers for the Soviets ?!. Does MI5 know ?! Do they care ? Waaaay ahead of yer..................voila the garden shed !! You applied for Listed Building and Planning Consent yet General ? and you'd better get rid of them trees before some extremist from the Woodland Trust starts scattering TPO's around like confetti - then yer stuck with them. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks Dennis, Why didn't you just nick one from a redundant B-29 ? !!. Thats what the Soviets did and if its good enough for Mother Russia.............. Damn, good point !... Sticky tape factory ?!, Building nuclear bombers for the Soviets ?!. Does MI5 know ?! Do they care ? No Yes Don't know Wibble Actually the 3M bit crossed my mind as I wrote it...I thought some bright spark will say something ... East Lindsey council have provisionally OK'ed the structure and I've applied for planning permission for an extention to be added, (ie the rest of the aircraft) which is pending a few enquiries from the VVS and Heavy Lift. A bloke's coming out next week for a shuftee.....there's a bit of water damage where the fin used to be and a couple of gerbils have moved into the turret but other than that it's good to go .. Melch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) a couple of gerbils have moved into the turret but other than that it's good to go ... Melch Just be glad it's not a couple of Russian brown bears, General! Rather more difficult to be rid of, I'm led to understand. Regards, Jason Edited November 4, 2013 by Learstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Indeed! "Fagot" is a wooden wind musical instrument & a bundle of sticks. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I'm really hoping to get out to Russia next year to do a few museums. I would love to see one of these in person! Looking great Andy, really shows the size against the Bucc. Now, who would want to do a 1/24th scale Bison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 Now, who would want to do a 1/24th scale Bison? Daft question Rad.... If you're planning on going out there then I'm up for a trip too, we'll have a chat about it at the weekend ! Monino is a must and I'd love to get out to Dyagilevo too.....Ken (Duffey)'s the chap to talk to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Would be happy with that Andy, will speak about it on the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 'that goes for anyone whose going too of course, come over for a chat...' It took me all day to find you last year and even then I had to tie you down to finish the conversation! Re; Monino I went there a couple of years ago as part of an Ian Allan trip and found it somewhat frustrating as 1. The Moscow traffic meant it took longer to get there than expected so we had a lot less time than promised 2. The machines are within a roped off area and any attempt to cross the rope resulted in a lot of shouting and stamping of feet by the 'guardians'. Some of the party managed to circumvent this by getting into conversation with some chaps restoring a Pe-2 and muttered about the lack of access to the Bison - 'No problem - follow me' so off they went. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Waaaay ahead of yer..................voila the garden shed !! I am sure we could expend a few hours discussing whether that panel on the right is an authentic scale interior green or has just faded in the open air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 It took me all day to find you last year and even then I had to tie you down to finish the conversation! Guilty as charged M'lud, hope I wasn't that rude, good lord, I'll have my batman with me this year, Fast Eddie...he'll keep me in line.. .... John, I promise to keep within the confines of halls 1.2 and 3 this year !...Will you be in the usual place...if so I'll hunt you down........ I've heard these things about Monino too...hopefully I'll be able to rope in a few of the chaps from the Russian sites I frequent who also seem to able to crawl all over the exhibits without being shot at, sworn at or generally abused to any great degree, ( I s'pose speaking Russian helps !!). I've heard the 'guards' are partial to chocolate and the odd fag, (watch it number one !!!)... I am sure we could expend a few hours discussing whether that panel on the right is an authentic scale interior green or has just faded in the open air... Well ex, I'll take a swatch to my local Homebase and see if they can match it with anything in their range...putrid bile green with a hint of mucous I'm thinking........but then the sun can do funny things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 but then the sun can do funny things.... So I've heard..... BTW, Make sure you store the potting compost at the uphill end. Mushrooms in your tailend can do funny things to a bloke. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 . I've heard the 'guards' are partial to chocolate and the odd fag, (watch it number one !!!)... But be careful about that. Putin's new anti-gay laws make negotiations difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 'John, I promise to keep within the confines of halls 1.2 and 3 this year' Oh good, that's where I'll be too. I should be on the Mid Sussex stand at least part of the time, assuming nurse thinks that I am stable enought to attend. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 Make sure you store the potting compost at the uphill end. Mushrooms in your tailend can do funny things to a bloke. Thanks Pete...I'll bear that in mind.........................mushrooms never did me any harm !!..... ....... But be careful about that. Putin's new anti-gay laws make negotiations difficult Don't worry Jessica....I don't trust any man with the words 'put' and 'in' in his surname......tobbacy and Vladivar will be the currency of choice... assuming nurse thinks that I am stable enough to attend. Since when's that stopped you !.............. I should be on the Mid Sussex stand Well don't fall off !.......Wave yer arms about and shout a lot............I'll see you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Good to hear....This year I'll be limiting myself to the Bomber Command and probably the Project Cancelled tables and as BC will be commemorating the Dams raid, displaying all the aircraft used I won't be bringing many other models this year so I can wander about enjoying the show for a change........ oh and there's a big shopping list to get through ! Look forward to seeing you there.... that goes for anyone whose going too of course, come over for a chat... I'll be on the stall too on Saturday Andy, although need to leave about 4.30 ish. Be good to catch up with everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 But be careful about that. Putin's new anti-gay laws make negotiations difficult You still annoyed the only decent eye candy you could find online was fighting for the 'wrong end' girl? On the subject of Monino and Russian travels; I've heard thing seem to be getting a little more restrictive again over the last two years or so around several airbases that were otherwise quite open previously. Perhaps need some bigger bars of chocolate and pouches of baccy to help you on the route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 You still annoyed the only decent eye candy you could find online was fighting for the 'wrong end' girl? Well you know what they say: The good ones are all taken or gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Cheers Neil, see you there Perhaps need some bigger bars of chocolate and pouches of baccy to help you on the route. Yep no problem Col...in hand, local Thorntons are helping out, Just loaded up the old jallope.............now to get her through customs !! The good ones are all taken or gay. There are a few good ones left...............take my good friend Igor here, he's neither......................................but he's your's for a couple of Woodbines and a Wispa bar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Well after all the excitement and fallout of yet another Telford show I shall be getting back to this little fella. Thanks to the amazing generosity of a few retailers that I've befriended over the years, not to mention a couple of BM'ers I came back loaded with bags full of 'review goodies' designed to distract me from the one true course...but I've resisted so far and will valiantly continue my quest ... The rear turret is one of the few areas of the kit that needs extra work and having spoken to Yuri of Scalemodels.ru it became apparent that major surgery would be needed here if it was to look anything like the real deal. Firstly it's too short as can be seen here, the centre line of the ball turret should line up with the front of the rear glazing...... Please excuse the quality of the photos...cameras been playing up a bit.... Here is where the ball turret should come out to, Here's the real thing, the 3MD at Monino, Also in this shot you can see that the side 'cowls' are longer than portrayed in the kit and need to be extended again in line with the centre of the ball. The upper area needs bulking out a bit too......These aircraft really look like they were hammered together......... This is becoming a separate model in it's own right !! Firstly I cut off the front fairings, top and bottom and added scrap resin to both, The windows should have slightly curved corners but I'll probably do that when it comes to painting the beast..... After these were carved into shape the ball was test fitted, (everything's just pushed together at the moment). A missing feature of the rear windows is the white inner frame which holds the anti flash curtains. This is very visible through the glazing on the real thing and so I made one up from 0.5mm card, a bit fiddly but worth the effort. The windows were tinted light green which I'll do a bit later as will the window frames which will be added using the thin card again. For some reason the glazing looks dirty in this photo...in reality it's crystal clear. Note the finish and fit of panels......flush finish it wasn't...but then subsonic doesn't need to be..... (the square box on top of the rear fairing was unique to the 3M tankers). I decided to totally scratchbuild the ball turret as the details were wrong, (just a sphere with two small holes for the cannons !). I decided to cut out the elevation slots and then add the 'slides' separately . The centre strut is recessed so it was easier to do this before fitting the cannons. The cannons were another matter...just short sticks which were all but useless so I blagged a couple of sets of Quickboost ones that looked appropriate for the task, (JU-88's in fact), which had the correct diameter and length. Extra range finding gear will be added to them later. And fitted together, And the unit fitted together, There's still a lot of work to do as the side shrouds were heat resistant and slightly longer, these will be done with the thin card again...Next will be the top of the fairing running from the radar cap, Amodel completely cocked this bit up, Finally the empty cartridge chutes under the turret, again Amodel got this wrong so I scratchbuilt the unit according to photos, Cheers all, Melchie 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 If the kit had scale panel lines, they would get filled as "too deep". One wonders if the defensive gunners on Soviet bombers would have done any good in a "Hot War" scenario. Even the Beagle had a tailgunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Very nice work Andy. This has got me thinking what V-bombers would look like with Gun Turrets placed all over... Imagine a victor with a ball turret gunner. I always thought it interesting at the V-forces only defense being lots of radar, radar jammers etc.. And very low flying. Nice to see the Russians give their crews some flying lead reassurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Those fairings & panels on the real thing, You expect to see gobbets of glue seeping out. But does this mean that Novo kits were really accurate? It's coming along nicely mein General. Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I always thought it interesting at the V-forces only defense being lots of radar, radar jammers etc.. And very low flying. Well, it worked for the Mosquito... And early in the life of the V force it became clear that the bomber's greatest enemy was the missile, which is impossible to shoot down unless you have a Goalkeeper or similar - and missiles was why they went low-level. Since then few bombers have been built, but one common feature is - no guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Thanks chaps, yes the Soviets really weren't into super smooth finishes, the emphasis being more on 'get as many built as possible, we're bound to lose a good proportion so don't make it a work of art !' The supersonic aircraft were dealt with differently, the Blinder, Bounder, Backfire and Blackjack all having super smooth surfaces, understandably, no boiler plates in sight. As for armament, both the Blinder and Backfire had a tail gun, (later replaced on some versions of the Blinder with enhanced ECM gear) and this was deemed almost totally useless even by the VVS itself, the gun laying TP-1 TV guidance system being unreliable and not really up to the task. Apparently gunners used to just fire them off to frighten the local wildlife. Even the mighty Hustler had one......you wonder at the effectiveness of that at high Mach .....might get lucky and hit an incoming missile ! The rear gunner felt really isolated and must have been bored out of his skull on these marathon flights...only relieved when the odd US or NATO aircraft made its presence felt......I'd love to know what they were really yelling at one another as they waved innocuously at the ever closing jets............. !!$%^&&*" This has got me thinking what V-bombers would look like with Gun Turrets placed all over. Hate to think what the weight penalty would have been Rob.........the early 'V's weren't exactly overpowered in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 As for armament, both the Blinder and Backfire had a tail gun, (later replaced on some versions of the Blinder with enhanced ECM gear) and this was deemed almost totally useless even by the VVS itself, the gun laying TP-1 TV guidance system being unreliable and not really up to the task. Apparently gunners used to just fire them off to frighten the local wildlife. Even the mighty Hustler had one......you wonder at the effectiveness of that at high Mach .....might get lucky and hit an incoming missile ! As for the Mighty B-58, the general consensus seems to be that the M61 Gatling gun in the tail was for all intents and purposes useless. i heard the shells would pretty much tumble once they left the muzzle if the plane was at Mach 2. Perhaps even as slow as Mach 1. They were probably more effective as an impact/ FOD hazard than for any penetrating capabilities. The track record of tail guns on jet bombers seems decidedly mixed. It wasn't reliable enough to protect the RB-47H shot down by the Russians in 1960, but a B-52 supposedly managed to knock down a MiG during the Linebacker campaign. Seems to me the gun in the tail provided more of a psychological benefit than a defensive one. That being said, the B-58 was legendary (or should i say notorious?) for its extremely effective ECM capabilities. I have to wonder if it was a driving influence behind the Russians adopting such humongous and powerful radars which could "Burn Thru" stuff. At any rate, low flying and crazy mad ECM seem to have been the main defences before stealth came along. d-layed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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