phildagreek Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 They look superb! Takes me back to my 'yoof watching them dart about over Yorkshire & watching them at Finningley. Fantastic work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Young Ascoteer fails to win the debrief. To begin with you never win a debrief cos you were too maxed out to remember what happened..... As you get a bit of time in you remember what happened but are too junior to win. And then it's your turn I started to win a few debriefs when I became a pairs leader on Jags. I won em all when I was the squadron QWI, 4s lead and auth........ I was just about to report my u/s radio to ATC when I remembered I could actually switch it on again...!! Nice on K. By the time I'm doing my jags - enough time will have passed for me to be able re-tell the story of the no-radio, single engine, fuel emergency crashing of the circuit at Cambrai. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I started to win a few debriefs when I became a pairs leader on Jags. I won em all when I was the squadron QWI, 4s lead and auth........ Oh yes, As an A2 QFI/IRE one tended to win every debrief. It's amazing how far one came from being a sweaty and shaking stude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And they say there's no such thing as synchronicity A lake that looks like the playboy bunny - but an error and the playboy bunny getting itself (herself?) stuck on the tail of the first of the black'n'white Dominies Debs Told you you'd be at home here and never more at home than in one of Steve's magical threads Steve I watched you do it I went back and watched it again but I still can't see how you got so much ejector seat into those bits of resin even if there wasn't a thread with the rest of the JPs in, that pair of pairs of seats would qualify as my best of the lot so far b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Small towns and big towns seem to look the same. Big rivers shrink and small rivers grow. Hills look like mountains and vice versa. Lakes look all the same. All forests look like the one your hoping to see - even if it means that the tree cutters must have been in and radically altered the shape since the map was drawn In fact anything that looks even vaguely like the thing your hoping to see suddenly becomes it - it has to be it - oh please let it be it - it must be it - right it is it. Good - now that bad assumption has been made lets proceed to get completely lost - c*ck up - bust someone's controlled airspace - or do one of several alternative stupid and embarrassing things. Of course it's always bl**din obvious afterwards that it was the wrong feature in the wrong place and at the wrong time on the stopwatch so it couldn't be it......Not in a million years. I've actually been meaning to ask about this, because as a small boy, I had a VHS tape all about the gallant RAF ground-attack crews, and they had -- memory may be failing me here -- I believe little cassette tapes that they put in their Tornadoes and which apparently had all the data for their moving map displays. How on earth did those work? Did the Jaguar have something similar? Or am I going to have to wait until the Jag build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_gn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I've actually been meaning to ask about this, because as a small boy, I had a VHS tape all about the gallant RAF ground-attack crews, and they had -- memory may be failing me here -- I believe little cassette tapes that they put in their Tornadoes and which apparently had all the data for their moving map displays. How on earth did those work? Did the Jaguar have something similar? Or am I going to have to wait until the Jag build? I remember a cockpit cassette tape being featured during an '80's RAF recruitment advert on TV. I think...the pilot was placing it in a machine in one of the side consoles. For some reason I think it was a Tornado. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Tornado, you say? Probably a Barry Manilow tape... Pan pan pan 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Probably a Barry Manilow tape... Well you know what they say about 31Sqn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No I don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The tapes were defiantly on the tonka as I recall an article in Aircraft Illustrated magazine in the 80s and pic of green suited driver standing next to his GR1 holding said (Barry Manilow) tape in hand. Well you know what they say about 31Sqn! Came after 30Sqn? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I've actually been meaning to ask about this, because as a small boy, I had a VHS tape all about the gallant RAF ground-attack crews, and they had -- memory may be failing me here -- I believe little cassette tapes that they put in their Tornadoes and which apparently had all the data for their moving map displays. How on earth did those work? Did the Jaguar have something similar? Or am I going to have to wait until the Jag build? Nah. You can have a snippet now........ The GR1 had an inertial navigation system (INAS) called NAVWASS (IIRC - NAVigation and Weapon Aiming Sub System (or some such) including an inertial platform to sense the aircrafts movement in 3 dimensions and a back lit moving map display to show the aircraft's position. You could enter way points using latitude and longitude but it had to be done using the LRMTS hand controller mounted on the left console so it was an interminable process of flicking the little left thumb operated controller left or right and clicking the trigger. It wasn't much used. So the sortie planning was pretty much the traditional line on a map with elapsed timing and the airborne navigation was pretty much traditional map and stopwatch with the bonus of the moving map showing you where you were at any given time........ish. Trouble is that inertial platform was prone to excessive drift and the moving map display could quickly be inaccurate by a couple of miles or often several miles. So - on top of every other task consuming the single seat pilot's limited RAM - the pilot had to monitor the moving map display and 'fix' the moving map display over an identifiable feature by pressing a 'fix' button and slewing the moving map using the little thumb controller on the LRMTS. This only moved the map into a correct position and didn't tell the INAS where it was. So the INAS would be wrong. This was called doing a 'random fix'. The only way to fix the INAS was a 'planned fix' over a predetermined point but that involved entering the lat and long of the pre determined point as above - and it wasn't much used...... Meanwhile looking head in cockpit and slewing the map to do a random fix whilst flying at 250' (or at times 100' ) was not without it's drawbacks and there probably aint a jag pilot alive who hasn't had his life saved (or in a few cases not saved) by the radar altimeter low height warner alerting him to the fact that the jet and the earth are now on a collision course and he really ought to look outside the window and do something about it..... The only thing that made us feel a little better was that the early the Harrier's (GR1 and 3) nav kit was even worse. Of course cos the Harrier had to be able to do its press ups it only went a little way before running out of fuel and so Harrier pilots tended to be able to learn the nav features around their bases - so didn't actually have to do any navigating as such. It's rather harder to learn all the necessary nav features when you can fly for an hour and a half - then air to air refuel and do it all again.... The GR1A upgrade introduced the Ferranti FIN1064 INAS and everything changed. The INAS was so accurate that you sometimes did not have to fix it at all during a sortie. There was a numeric pad so you could enter lat and long easily (bliss) Even better there was a navigation planing table add-on so that you could align a master 1/500,000 map that had the route planned on it and click on every waypoint thereby uploading it to memory. You could enter target info planned fixes as 1/50,000 grid reference and store it on memory. You could then ascribe timings to every waypoint/fix. Every pilot in a formation could then transfer all this info onto a memory pod (not a tape - it was a type of early memory stick) and take it out to his jet and upload it into the computer. Even more bliss - and the actual answer to your question PC. The navkit could then give you HUD steering and timing info to fly on track and on time. We started being able to reliably overfly any the target within a second or two of any time specified. We started to develop much more complicated routes and formation and attack tactics cos we spent less time and brain capacity merely not getting lost. We started to cruise at 450kts rather than 420kts as we didn't have so much mental arithmetic to do. 450kts was more comfortable for the Jag. But we'd flown at 420kts with NAVWASS cos it was a nice round 7 nautical miles a minute and it made it easier to mentally calculate timings. Trying to do the sums at 450kts - which is 7.5 nautical miles a minute would have been too hard (I'm not joking). Oh. And Jaguar pilots became unbearably pompous about their little jet and their own abilities............. But hey ho....... 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) The tapes were defiantly on the tonka as I recall an article in Aircraft Illustrated magazine in the 80s and pic of green suited driver standing next to his GR1 holding said (Barry Manilow) tape in hand. Well there you go.... We had a tape player/recorder - it was only really maintained properly on the recce squadrons (2 & 41) so that the recce guys could chat their recce chat and use it when debriefing with the intel guys. The ones in the attack squadron jets weren't used or maintained. I lost several Pat Benatar tapes chewed up by em. I did once record a weapons range sortie. Lots of squeaky voiced Fritag muttering weapons checks (stick top, late arm camera, pylon, fusing, bos lights (note to self - why is my head still full of this stuff?)) and radio calls like 'in hot' followed by a bored range officer saying "Delta Hotel" (what else ). Not terribly exciting stuff. There's not much to record on a voice recorder in a singe seat jet...... Although I do sometimes wonder just how many expletives in a row I uttered when it was all going Pete Tong "f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck" etc. I bet I kept it up until i'd though of something to extricate myself from the mess. Probably about 15 minutes then Edited January 13, 2015 by Fritag 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh yes, casette players on aeroplanes...... On Albert we didn't have such a thing but, when I was doing my baby Co-Pilot tour we had a certain fellow who invented a rather nifty bit of kit that allowed you to plug your boogie box/walkman/casette playing machine/whatever into the aircraft's intercom system. Essentially it was a bit of wire with a std NATO jack plug on one end and a 3.5mm jack plug on the other. GREAT! So there we are, transiting home on one of the interminable 'Cyprus Schedules' when young Ascoteer is asked by her (younger) Captain whether she has any tapes with which to alieviate the boredom. Young Ascoteer decides she will play a compilation tape of Punk and New Wave music she has made. (Author's note 1: Very young Ascoteer was a punkette at school so somewhat older Ascoteer is a bit of a connoisseur of such things. Author's note 2: This particular Captain was also rather a fan of bands like the Sex Pistols.) You just know this isn't going to go as planned... The tape is playing 'Babylon's Burning' by the Ruts when we get asked for a position report from Athens control (Author's note 3. Athens had radar but the Greek Air Traffickers weren't paid to use it so we still had to play the game of giving 'position reports' even though they had us on radar and we knew they had us on radar). What young Ascoteer doesn't know is that, if she presses the transmit switch then, not only will whatever her mic picks up be transmitted, but also anything that happens to be on the intercom at that given moment... "Ascot 4321 say position." Cue the Co-Pilot: "4321, Sitia 100/55, Flight Level 260." Over the top of: "Babylon's burning You're burning the street You're burning the ghetto With anxiety With anxiety Babylon's burning Babylon's burning" Total, stunned silence from Athens Control. The embarrasing part was that I wasn't even aware of the faux pas until 'Jet Set xxxx' (an Air 2000 737) came up on freq with the immortal: "Ascot 4321, well you guys certainly seem to be having a good time!" 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Tornado, you say? Probably a Barry Manilow tape... Pan pan pan Only in the GR fleet. We noble Air Defenders were more Dire Straits aficionados..... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Only in the GR fleet. We noble Air Defenders were more Dire Straits aficionados..... Surely not a reference to your situation in the event of a shooting war, one hopes? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Only in the GR fleet. We noble Air Defenders were more Dire Straits aficionados..... "These mist coloured mountains Are a home for me now But my home is the lowlands And always will b'screeeeeeeetch"........silence............. Oh yes. The Jag tape deck ate that one as well........ I am pleased to hear that the Barry Manilow infection had not reached all of my Fin flying brethren. Young Ascoteer decides she will play a compilation tape of Punk and New Wave music she has made. (Author's note 1: Very young Ascoteer was a punkette at school so somewhat older Ascoteer is a bit of a connoisseur of such things. Author's note 2: This particular Captain was also rather a fan of bands like the Sex Pistols.) Punk pilots in the Herc fleet? As an A2 QFI/IRE ....... Ahhhh. Now that explains a lot............... Although.........Punk and A2 QFI/IRE.......Evidence of a split personality? Edited January 13, 2015 by Fritag 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh I don't know... Sex Pistols : No Feelings (definite QFI stuff there!) Stranglers : Ice Queen (says it all really) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And to think we all slept well at night knowing our safety from international threat was in your hands I had a CD player wired in to the intercom to assist in air guitar sessions en route in our little microlight (two seat enclosed cockpit side by side stick n rudder office) amongst other stuff, landing lights (gave an excuse to have an extra switch in the cockpit!!!), luggage rack, god knows what else. You might think this is no big deal, well, that's what I thought until the chief technical officer of the BMAA turned up for a coffee at an airfield I landed at and had a look round. Talk about flip, each mod needed a signature from the queen as well as a ream of paperwork and a bank loan!!!! Who on earth is going to file paperwork to request permission to fit inflight entertainment? Needless to say, all was sorted, we just avoided him there after! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I had a CD player wired in to the intercom to assist in air guitar sessions en route in our little microlight....... You might think this is no big deal...... No indeed. I'm inclined to believe that air guitar sessions would not only be desireable - but should be mandatory.........It seems to me that air guitar and aviation have the potential to go together like cheese and chutney..... I have done some modelling today - despite distractions such as work and BM Posts I used Tamiya smoke on the JP3 wing tank nav lights - and I believe I have in the end reasonably captured the look. Black with a hint of red: Black with a hint of green: Still got a bit of time left tonight..... 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 "Your work here is done!" Congrats mate perfect rendition of a not easy 'looksie' air guitar I play that better than real ones with steel wirey strings Diddlediddlediddle ding ding dong ding ding ding diddle di....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Nailed it!! They look perfect! keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Aye the Nav lights look spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Nailed it!! They look perfect! keith And perfect is good enough - no need to make it any better! Cheers, Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Spare mental capacity is a strange thing, though. Ex 4 on the Gazelle on BFT was hovering. Read Chickenhawk for a very good description; the Beefer would sit the thing in an immaculate, rock steady hover, trimmed and everything, pointing at some unmissable landmark like the tower at Predannack, and then give you the controls one at a time - pedals only, then the lever, and then the cyclic, in turn. "Piece of p*ss", the foolish student thinks to himself. "OK Bloggs, that seemed pretty good: now try all 3 at the same time." "OK [with the foolish bravado of the true stude]. I have control". "This isn't too bad. Oh, now drifting a bit to the left. Add some pedal...why am I sinking? Oh yes, given more power to the tail rotor... so add some lever. Holy Cow! Why have we gone over there? I appear to be at 50 feet pointing in the wrong direction and going backwards at 30 knots. Sh*t; what happened to the bloody tower?..." Eventually you stop thinking about it and can hover, but at the time it feels as though simply standing still requires every ounce of your brain. That helpless Bambi on ice feeling never returns fully, though on the QHI's course at Shawbs they try to bring you back there by sitting you in the LHS & making you fly with your left hand on the cyclic & right on the (other seat's) collective. It's a good try to make you a Stude again, but the sheer terror of being asked to "Contact Culdrose Approach on blah-blah-blah decimal blah" can never really be reproduced. Until you lot mentioned it and it all came flooding back, that is! Ha-har,you want to try it on Microsoft Flightsim when your bum isn't in it to tell you what you're doing.......... Can't do heli's for toffee on that thing ,though I know a few that can and they're 'orribly good at it. Stevey you must have eyes like the proverbial sh*t-house rat to attach all that aerialery to them things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Punk pilots in Herks. Having watched a dogfight between a Hawk and a Herk in the Scottish Highlands from above (no I wasn't in an Aircraft at the time ) that the Herk looked to be winning I can quite well believe that. As for the "cockpit radio players" in Jags and Tornados - perhaps that scene from Iron Eagles wasn't so far-fetched after all And I thought Puma pilots were the mental ones... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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