Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Which apropos of nothing brings me to Four Weddings and a Funeral.....where Kristin Scott Thomas gets my vote..... My Missis was at school with Kristin Scott Thomas. She has a pretty sad FAA connection, actually; her Dad was killed in a Sea Vixen when she was only about 6. Her Mum then remarried, this time to another Vixen pilot, Simon Idiens (after whom the famous-in-1968 "Simon's Sircus" display team from 892 NAS was named), who'd been a close friend of husband number 1. Idiens was then killed a couple of years later, flying a Toom. If you go to the (beautiful) Fleet Air Arm church at Yeovilton - it's on the South side of the airfield in the village itself, and not easy to find - you will find a beautiful stone sundial which is a memorial to them both. It was put there relatively recently, so I have always assumed it was put there by Kristin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 How sad is that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Interesting that. Was the FAA a particularly dangerous place to be in the 60's? Unhappy coincidence in any event.BTW I fell I should point out that Kristin Scott Thomas is older then me. Albeit arguably in better shape.....Anywaysup. There is no stopping me now in my race to get the windscreen stuck in place. But first I had to represent in some ways the gubbins the RAF saw fit to hang on the inside of the screen. Well by gubbins I mean the G meter and E2B compass (I think) - which hang close together - just about touching, with the E2B just aft and above the G meter.Warming to my theme of just trying to create an impression.....I created a mishapen black lump to represent said gubbins (anyone who knows what an E2B looks like is asked not to laugh)And stuck it in place with some kristal klear.Oh alright. Here's a piccie of what my mishapen lump is purporting to be: [ BTW. Failed the Cheshiretaurus test - in that I haven't been able to reproduce the needles and digits on the G meter/E2B dials I'm pretty sure his eyes are younger than mine tho' Two posts in two days. Feeling a bit giddy. May have to cancel the plan to stick the windscreen in place and go to the pub instead.....Steve Edited June 3, 2014 by Fritag 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 No fuzzy dice? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 No fuzzy dice? Nope. RAF flying training was a serious business; for serious minded young men; who have grown up to become serious minded lawyers........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Nope. RAF flying training was a serious business; for serious minded young men; who have grown up to become serious minded lawyers........ .....who play with little plastic aeroplanes...!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) .....who play with little plastic aeroplanes...!! who seriously mindedly craft scale representations of important historical aircraft in the face of much gratuitous and sadly non-seriously minded abuse...... (Sighs sadly and with much regret for his fellow BM'er) Edited June 3, 2014 by Fritag 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Whatever...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Great work on that compass, looks good enough to me. Things coming along fine. good work! Failed the Cheshiretaurus test - in that I haven't been able to reproduce the needles and digits on the G meter/E2B dials I'm pretty sure his eyes are younger than mine tho' The 43 year old Cheshiretaurus eyes aint that brill these days, have always been a little on the short sighted side but have always been good enough for flying until a couple of years ago when I failed the medical by 0.25 dioptres, or did I forget to memorise the chart during the ECG that year too! So vision now corrected I'm on that slippery slope of deteriorating eyesight. For the modelling I invested in a pair of cheap +3 dioptre reading glasses without which I couldn't have done very much. BTW the compass markings on the vampire are just fudged vertical random scratches from a needle. Keep it up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 OMG Amazing stuff, very inspirational thread. I have just caught up, I have recently come back on after being away in the garage over the winter months doing some 1:1 scale modelling. All the bestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Interesting that. Was the FAA a particularly dangerous place to be in the 60's?The Vixen had something of a reputation, certainly. It wasn't so much that it was an inherently dangerous aircraft, but the margin of error when sticking it down on a deck at night was pretty minuscule, and landing aids were not exactly advanced. The Looker in particular had a tough time of it; a higher proportion of Observers were killed than Pilots. A split second delay in pulling the handle when you went over the bow could mean life or death, and they were head down in that coal hole. I understand that KST's Dad flew into the sea at night in Lyme Bay, doing a dodgy 60s thing which involved dropping Lepus flares and then doubling back on yourself to ID or attack a ship visually. We still used to practice it when I first flew Sea Kings - it was called a DIDTAC, and was really a Wasp tactic, for it to attack with AS-12s (visually aimed). I cannot for the life of me recall what it really stood for, but we all called it Death In The Dark. Incredibly easy to get totally disorientated, and frankly it scared the crap out of me at 90 knots, so God only knows what it must have been like in a Vixen at 4 times that. My next-door neighbour (now in his 70s and still flying) was a Vixen driver - Mark 1s and 2s. I have total respect for anyone who flew any of those early jets, but especially from a carrier deck. The odds weren't great. I remember when we came home from the Far East in Ark in 1988, we were told by the Admiral that she was the first RN carrier EVER to deploy East of a Suez and return without losing a single man. Not a nice thought! Anyway. That is immediately recognisable as an E2B, and is thus up to your usual impeccable modelling standards. I seem to remember from my ground school days that the only difference between the E2B and the E2C was the fact that the latter had a light in it; high tech indeed! This may be nonsense, of course; a standby compass, which you'd only ever use if things were going pretty pear-shaped elsewhere... but which you couldn't read without a torch... surely not even our lot would have sent us up with something as useless as that, would they? Would they? Happy reading, your JP thread, as ever. Edited June 3, 2014 by Ex-FAAWAFU 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 As much as I love the look of it, the Sea Vixen always seemed particularly useless, like a latter-day Fulmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Not sure that's entirely fair. After all, it was a contemporary of the Javelin (Firestreaks & Red Tops), and I know which one of those I'd choose to fly - it took about 6 marks of the Javelin before it was much better than a waste of fuel. (Exits left at the run, ducking). The Vixen first flew in 1951, after all. The Vixen's problem was a) that it was expensive to maintain because it was complex and that it was built around a weapon system that was obsolete pretty quickly (whatever the Lightning fraternity might have maintained!). Sure, it was no Phantom, but then few aircraft were. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Not sure that's entirely fair. After all, it was a contemporary of the Javelin (Firestreaks & Red Tops), and I know which one of those I'd choose to fly - it took about 6 marks of the Javelin before it was much better than a waste of fuel. (Exits left at the run, ducking). The Vixen first flew in 1951, after all. The Vixen's problem was a) that it was expensive to maintain because it was complex and that it was built around a weapon system that was obsolete pretty quickly (whatever the Lightning fraternity might have maintained!). Sure, it was no Phantom, but then few aircraft were. Oh, don't get me wrong, the Javelin was no prize, but it just seems as though, regardless of when the Vixen first flew, by the time it entered service, time had long since passed it by. A large, gunless subsonic two-man fighter just barely faster than the Tu-16? I can't think of a single contemporary potential enemy with actual planes who couldn't have dispatched it with relative ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feifeitim Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 "Nope. RAF flying training was a serious business; for serious minded young men; who have grown up to become serious minded lawyers........ " Hahahaha! Excellent banter Steve! Laughing all the way from Ningbo! Where's that?!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri48 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 "Nope. RAF flying training was a serious business; for serious minded young men; who have grown up to become serious minded lawyers........ " At £400 quid plus an hour...what else other than serious minded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 £400 an hour! you could fly a jp for less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) At £400 quid plus an hour...what else other than serious minded! I'd have definitely been serious minded if they'd been paying me £400 an hour..... As it was - I'm afraid that 18 year olds will be 18 year olds...... I understand that KST's Dad flew into the sea at night in Lyme Bay, doing a dodgy 60s thing which involved dropping Lepus flares and then doubling back on yourself to ID or attack a ship visually. We still used to practice it when I first flew Sea Kings - it was called a DIDTAC, and was really a Wasp tactic, for it to attack with AS-12s (visually aimed). I cannot for the life of me recall what it really stood for, but we all called it Death In The Dark. Incredibly easy to get totally disorientated, and frankly it scared the crap out of me at 90 knots, so God only knows what it must have been like in a Vixen at 4 times that. We also still had Lepus flares on the Jag force in the 80's. On the QWI course we 'tossed' and 'lobbed' them onto Tain range. Ran in at night at low level over the sea (not that low actually as IIRC it was 500') at 450/480kts (can't remember which) and then pitched hard up - paused - pickled off the Lepus which then flew on in an arc to burst over the target - and we disappeared off on a reciprocal back at low level. Pretty it was when they went off and IIRC you could see the flares go off from all the way back in the Lossie circuit on a clear night. It wasn't disorientating for us because the HUD gave all the info you needed to stay orientated. I can well see how disorientating (and dangerous) it would be without a HUD tho'. Didn't do it on the squadron either. BTW. I've bollo***ed up my windscreen. I was giving it a last polish on the inside before fitting it an I managed to scrape the Klear finish leaving a bl**dy obvious mark. I've had to remove my little G meter/E2B and micromesh off the mark - and the painted internal framing in the process. So much for hubris. Groundhog day is back....... Steve BTW again - speaking of hubris. I just noticed our course badge just about visible on my right sleeve in the snowman photo. Here's a close up: It sort of suggests an ability to swoop gracefully about the place in a jet - at a time when we were probably still incapable of even starting it alone and unaided. Call it aspirational? Edited June 4, 2014 by Fritag 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri48 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I'd have definitely been serious minded if they'd been paying me £400 an hour..... As it was - I'm afraid that 18 year olds will be 18 year olds...... Nowt changes Steve, fun in early life....serious later.....then wind down! JP coming along nicely, i'm looking forward to the painting stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I'd have definitely been serious minded if they'd been paying me £400 an hour..... As it was - I'm afraid that 18 year olds will be 18 year olds...... We also still had Lepus flares on the Jag force in the 80's. On the QWI course we 'tossed' and 'lobbed' them onto Tain range. Ran in at night at low level over the sea (not that low actually as IIRC it was 500') at 450/480kts (can't remember which) and then pitched hard up - paused - pickled off the Lepus which then flew on in an arc to burst over the target - and we disappeared off on a reciprocal back at low level. Pretty it was when they went off and IIRC you could see the flares go off from all the way back in the Lossie circuit on a clear night. It wasn't disorientating for us because the HUD gave all the info you needed to stay orientated. I can well see how disorientating (and dangerous) it would be without a HUD tho'. Didn't do it on the squadron either. BTW. I've bollo***ed up my windscreen. I was giving it a last polish on the inside before fitting it an I managed to scrape the Klear finish leaving a bl**dy obvious mark. I've had to remove my little G meter/E2B and micromesh off the mark - and the painted internal framing in the process. So much for hubris. Groundhog day is back....... Steve BTW again - speaking of hubris. I just noticed our course badge just about visible on my right sleeve in the snowman photo. Here's a close up: It sort of suggests an ability to swoop gracefully about the place in a jet - at a time when we were probably still incapable of even starting it alone and unaided. Call it aspirational? I was on 16 course at CF, and our course badge was an *ahem* schoolgirl (as in sweet 16) holding a small JP3. From memory, a New Zealand stude on the course came up with the concept, and I drew it for the badge makers. My artistic talents are limited to say the least, and clearly, political correctness was some time in the future! Unfortunately, my mother chucked out a load of my stuff which I left at home in Scotland, including that badge. Perhaps just as well, really! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Speaking of hubris. I just noticed our course badge just about visible on my right sleeve in the snowman photo. Here's a close up: It sort of suggests an ability to swoop gracefully about the place in a jet - at a time when we were probably still incapable of even starting it alone and unaided. Call it aspirational? Or of course you could see it as an aircraft in the process of tying itself into a knot around a set of rugby posts - the rope will shortly pull tight and everything will go pear-shaped. Probably more accurate than all this graceful swoopage malarkey. I'm pretty sure I didn't really do graceful as a Stude. Graceful was always pretty hard in a Sea King, bless it. So that means my first graceful swooping was probably over 1,000 hours later, in a Lynx. Our course (28 RN Pilots) badge showed Danger Mouse with his car painted as a red & silver trainer. I cannot for the life of me remember why (though what's not to like with Danger Mouse?), but it stayed on my green-and-smellies for the rest of my career; I must still have it somewhere. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Or of course you could see it as an aircraft in the process of tying itself into a knot around a set of rugby posts - the rope will shortly pull tight and everything will go pear-shaped. Probably more accurate than all this graceful swoopage malarkey. Graceful swoopage malarkey? Now you may well be right - but (as I believe I may well have already mentioned (probably on several occasions)) - I got the course aerobatics prize at Church Fenton (and again on the Hawk at Valley but more of that if I ever build a Hawk) so whilst it may be right that the young Fritag aerobatics weren't graceful swoopings - they were presumably less agricultural than my immediate peers. Actually - might have to re-think that. Being young and bold at Church Fenton I planned my competition aero's routine so that whenever possible I 'pushed' inverted into figures rather that 'pulled' in the more conventional way. Cue lots of horrid negative G pushing up into stall turns and into Cuban 8's etc (shudder to think about it now). I rather suspect that my (comparatively and as I thought at the time) ancient squadron commander was so appalled at the prospect of sitting through my routine again that he thought it prudent to call it a day and give me the prize.... So maybe not graceful swoopings at all........ BTW having a modest early talent for aero's (or perhaps in my case merely a tolerance for negative G) for had bu**er all to do with whether or not you were any good at operating an aeroplane - which was what the services were looking for. Oh. And it's just occurred to me that Red Bull might have pinched the whole Red Bull racing idea from my old 11 course badge!!! And I thought it was just plane spotters taking photo's from the boundary fence..... 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) This is a great thread - love the tangents as much as the build - both of which are beyond me. Been lurking here like a little kid straining to hear what the grown-ups are saying in the other room. Edited June 4, 2014 by Cookenbacher 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) A common theme in a couple of my recent favourite threads (Duncan B's Lightning and Cheshiretaurus's Vampire) has been lines in Airfix canopies. It's obviously a recurring issue because my Airfix JP5 windscreen has one as well - albeit it was virtually invisible - and even then only at a certain angle - and I was happy to live with it. But with the last bash of polishing it has suddenly become very prominent indeed: It's not a crack in the screen it's inside the plastic. I suppose stressing the screen in polishing it might have made it more prominent? - but I don't really see how. Anyway it's a real shame cos the windscreen is absolutely crystal clear now - best it's been! If I hadn't accidentally marked the screen (earlier post) so I had to polish it again this would never have happened. Life - don't talk to me about life..... Anyroad up. I'm now having to go down the road of vac forming myself a screen after all. Could have done this a few pages of this thread ago and saved you all the chore of reading about my (non) progress......... I've made some resin plugs of the kit screen: And I'm in the process of making some from the Pavla vac formed screen (having sanded off the crude framing from the Pavla Vac before making a mould): Next up will be vac forming a few screens. Cheshiretaurus - over on his Vampire thread - has identified a problem with clear sheet sticking to resin moulds and becoming marked so I'll probably face this as well. Fun and games. Edited June 6, 2014 by Fritag 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Judging by your previous vac-forming prowess, you'll nail it. I've been trying to think of a joke about photos which contain old Air Force mugs (see your top photo above), but have opted to leave it to your imagination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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