Decal instigated rant - grrrrrrrr

[Filler]

I've been faffing around building an Academy F-16C since I think February. I've had all manor of problems along the way with fits, glues and fillers which have at times knocked my enthusiasm for the hobby but I've just said to myself that it's a learning curve and I'll get better in time.

But the last 48 hours of applying decals have brought me to the brink of putting my stash and tools up for sale. I've learned a few things, some of them I possibly knew before but have only just experienced for myself, and I've learnt them the hard way.

Hasegawa decals are rubbish - especially if they are old (and I suspect every Hasegawa kit I have is old) as they will fall to bits.

Every decal solution that exists likes to turn everything a milky white when used on Gunze acrylics - even after it's been coated with Klear (or is it the clear?)

I should check, check and check again before applying any decals - as there is a 90% chance I will put it in the wrong place or upside down or something.

Unless you are a genius - do not use Klear for setting decals. It might be good - but only if you can place a decal 100% accurately first time. And even then, if you're using old Hasegawa decals you're gonna have problems.

Never ever try and adjust a decal that is placed nearly correctly as it will turn out that nearly was as good as it was ever going to get.

Sorry for the rant but I just need to get this off my chest. It's been really bloody annoying and has made me scared to death of attempting to build any of the models that I really want to build.

[chadders]

Have you thought about applying liquid decal film to the decals before you use them? That well keep them in 1 peice. On the issue with Klear, are you using Klear the floor polish, or clear as in varnish. If its varnish, that's your problem right there. When people talk about Klear as a setting solution they mean Klear floor polish

[stevehnz]

klear works well as a decal setting agent diluted 50% with water. I have no trouble repositioning decals as much as I want, I use a stiffish brush dipped in the klear solution to keep the area wet as I manipulate them. I'll remember to use decal flim on my old Hasegawa decals

Steve

Edited August 5, 2013 by stevehnz

[Heraldcoupe]

Decal setting solutions are often ammonia based, ammonia being what's used to strip Klear from floors.

Use Klear to set the decals by floating them onto a puddle, it's far better for this than anything else I've ever used. If you have too much Klear, use the edge of some paper towel to wick away the excess once the decal's in position.

Cheers,

Bill.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Heraldcoupe

[Filler]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I am using Klear floor polish - the stuff that was discontinued 4 or 5 years back. But I didn't dilute it for use with decals. I'll try again mixed 50/50 with water.

I did coat some decals with Microscale Liquid Decal Film but it was one of the substances that was creating the milky white staining around the decals. Having said that, it's starting to look as if brushing another coat of neat Klear over these decals fixes that issue. But not totally sure about that yet.

Can I brush the decal film liquid onto the whole sheet and leave it to dry and apply them over a day or two? Is that how it is supposed to work? I was coating one at a time and waiting 15 minutes as advised on the bottle. Very long winded that way.

Another thing is; on the couple of models I built a couple of years back, I didn't have any of these problems. But I exclusively used Tamiya acrylic on those. I'm sure I found Tamiya easier to airbrush too. The only drawback (and a big one for me) was that they don't seem to do the colours for post war jets. Or at least most kits only list Gunze colours.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Filler

[Black Knight]

I did coat some decals with Microscale Liquid Decal Film but it was one of the substances that was creating the milky white staining around the decals. Having said that, it's starting to look as if brushing another coat of neat Klear over these decals fixes that issue. But not totally sure about that yet.

Can I brush the decal film liquid onto the whole sheet and leave it to dry and apply them over a day or two? Is that how it is supposed to work? I was coating one at a time and waiting 15 minutes as advised on the bottle. Very long winded that way.

I had that same problem. I had to use the brush I was moving the decal with to sort of scrub away the milky white decal film. This happened on decals that were not too long coated. I've never had the problem on decals coated at least 24 hours before use.

[Giorgio N]

A few comments:

first of all, sorry to hear about your troubles... unfortunately every modeller has one of these days once in a while...

Yes, sometimes decal solutions can affect Klear (the old floor polish) and turn the area whitish. Some products are more aggressive than others, in particular I only use the gunze liquid sparingly. At the same time, as you're already witnessing, adding another couple of coats of Klear on top will restore the finish.

Milky white staining: sometimes this is caused by the glue of the decal. Best check if the White stuff is already there when you take the decal off the backing paper. My technique when this happens is to remove the decal and brush the decal solution on the back of the decal using a small brush, removing at the same time every white stuff that might be on.

Micro Decal Film has never caused any white residue to me, and I've used this product a lot. I have a feeling that maybe the product was not completely dry when you applied the decal. Better wait more than 15 minutes, say a couple of hours and see if the matter improves. Yes, you can coat the whole sheet and then apply the decals whenever you want. The product must be left to cure for 15 minutes, but a coated decal can be used anytime. I've used decals that I had coated a year before with no problem ! In general, I prefer to apply two coats, leaving a couple of hours between coats and Always apply the coated decals after at least another couple of hours

[Filler]

Thanks again gents. I'll take all your advice on board and see if I can finish the job with a bit more success.

I must admit that I was perhaps a little impatient as after so long building it, I was keen to finish it and once the decals start going on any model starts to look the business (usually). And I was mixing and matching techniques in a trialling type way and that was maybe a mistake too. I've used Klear, Micro-sol, Micro-set, Micro liquid decal film, Mr Mark Setter, Mr Mark Softer and of course warm and eventually cold water.

I'll apply two coats of decal film to the remainder of the sheet tonight and leave it till tomorrow to finish applying. I'll stick with the Microscale products and take my time.

Interested to know if anyone else thinks that different paint manufacturers have different reactions with decals solutions to others. I might test Tamiya again on a scrap model.

Just thought; with the liquid decal film, it was not so much the milky thing (that was likely down to the setter fluid), the decal film seemed to produce an almost gel like substance when applying the decal. Perhaps that was down to 15 minutes not being a long enough drying time..

Edited August 6, 2013 by Filler

[Filler]

Not that I expect anyone was waiting with bated breath for news of my decal woes but, I had a much more successful evening last night.

I coated all the decals with Microscale liquid decal film and left them for a good three hours. Then I applied them, carefully, using Microsol and in a couple of instances, Microset too. I didn't get much of the milky problem and what there was was reduced by swiftly and carefully removing excess liquid with a cotton bud. Nothing broke up and everything sat down nicely. And taking a slower and more focused approach helped too, as I didn't make placement errors. And by not having problems I avoided panicking and getting annoyed which only leads to more problems.

Anyway, the decalling is complete. I might splash some wash on it and then a final coat of Klear. It certainly won't be appearing in the RFI section but I may stick a photo in the funnies thread.

[Giorgio N]

I think everyone here is glad to hear that the problems have disappeared ! From the sound of it, it was just the decal film that had not cured completely.

[Filler]

Thanks Giorgio. All the advice given in here made the difference and I'm quietly confident that the decalling of my next model will be a much better experience.