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Help needed to identify a spit, down in Normandy june 1944


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Hello,

I' m looking for some help to identify the differents components of this photograph, found on wikipedia.

Sherman tanks move up past a crash-landed Spitfire, for an attack on Tilly-sur-Seulles, 17 June 1944. The Spitfire's squadron code – 'VZ' – indicates it belongs to RCAF 412 Squadron, which operated the Spitfire IXb during this period

It should be not so difficult for the spit.

- Mk.IX, but more precisely?

- 412 sqn RCAF

- VZ°S

- Serial? Something in MJ serie? Got one from 412 in France 1944.

- Pilot? Looks like he survived the crash?

It'll be more difficult for the shermans

- Unit? Could be 24th Lancers, which was involved at Tilly on the 18th.

- Type? Sherman V, or Vc???

Any help wil be greatly appreciated.

large.jpg

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From Chris Shores and Chris tHOMAS' 2nd TAF, the Spit is MJ255 VZ*S, flown by Flt Lt H G Garwood. It suffered engine failure on 11th June. Garwood survived the fore landing.

I'm sure I've seen details about the Shermans some where too.....

Chers

Pete

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From Chris Shores and Chris tHOMAS' 2nd TAF, the Spit is MJ255 VZ*S, flown by Flt Lt H G Garwood. It suffered engine failure on 11th June. Garwood survived the fore landing.

I'm sure I've seen details about the Shermans some where too.....

Chers

Pete

Mk.IXc, MJ255, VZ&S, 412 Sqdn [H.G. Garwood] Decals 1/48 Watermark 48003.

You can find the Photo and more in Bracken, The Canadians, vol. 1.

NPL

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According to a number of online dodgy sources. You are right about the 24th as they helped the 6th Battalion Durham Light Infantry from the west of the town. ( With the 2nd essex entering the town) These were the last days of the fight for tully-sur-suelles. Once again according to online sources they operated both MKIII and MKVC's

If somebody has the "none has lances" book about the 24th it might help you out.

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Many thanks!

In fact, I own the Shores/Thomas trilogy (quadrilogy?), but they're a few thousand milles away, back in France on my bookshelves.

I'll check them when I'll be back on holidays.

About the 24th lancers, maybe they weren't the only armoured unit in the area at the time?

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Is this the same Spitfire that has a photo of it with a US minesweeper in front of it before being loaded onto a trailer? I've tried Googling it using the serial but nothing came up.

Trevor

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About the 24th lancers, maybe they weren't the only armoured unit in the area at the time?

Without a doubt as the town had been bitterly fought over I suppose other tank groups from 8th armoured. The final liberation of the town is marked as the 19th and on the last push the tank support was provided by the 24th So it would make sense for tanks moving into position to be the 24th. (who were later disbanded a week later.)

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Is this the same Spitfire that has a photo of it with a US minesweeper in front of it before being loaded onto a trailer? I've tried Googling it using the serial but nothing came up.

Trevor

Hi Max,

No, the photo you're talking about is RCAF/DND photo PL-31127. It shows Spitfire IXc, MK359, KH-T, 403 Sqn (RCAF). piloted by F/O S.A. Tosh (not sure about the date of the crash-landing). He was shot down by flak and had the misfortune to come down in a minefield in France.

There is a series of RCAF photos of the mine clearance by US Army troops and recovery of this aircraft by an RCAF Repair & Salvage Team taken on 11 Aug 44. Lots of detail in the shots; the neatest being that the port side of the fuselage still had D-Day stripes (full height) while they seem to have been removed from the starboard side. It is certain that the photos were taken on the same date and during the same recovery. The stripes were still on the wing lower surfaces, but the upper surfaces show little if nothing for evidence of the stripes ever having been there.

Edited by Steve in Ottawa
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Yeah, that's it. One of the photos in the series shows an RCAF 'erk' under the stbd wing, clearing away debris on the ground around the mine and its detonator which is clearly visible.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 6 years later...

not more information, but a question...

 

I have looked at this Spitfire picture probably a hundred times but it never occured to me to question what sort of tail it has...

 

i look at it now and wonder if this has the pointy tail?

 

all the profiles show rounded tail, but I am beginning to wonder if that is correct.

 

this colourised version of the original picture is the largest I have seen and seems to show a pointy tail.

 

thoughts?

 

spacer.png

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Some information and photos from Carl Vincent, who asked me to post the images for him.

 

"   I see that the topic of this photo, which I consider one of the most evocative images of the Normandy campaign, has been revived.

     As far as the Spitfire tail is concerned, I attach an enlargement from an original print of the photo that I obtained around 40 years ago. In my opinion,

     for what little it is worth, the pointed appearance is due to the angle of the rudder.

    I attach another four photos of a different incident which was also mentioned that I acquired from the Archives around the same time.

    I chose them from a considerably larger series, not being able to obtain the entire lot due to financial reasons. I find them quite interesting. "

 

    Carl

 

 

50622606447_bbfe627934_o.jpg

 

50622503116_2a0bbfbcc6_o.jpg

 

50622503146_eefa262707_b.jpg

 

50622606492_8c17396f46_b.jpg

 

50622606512_84e13294a2_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris, for Carl

 

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Thank you Chris and Carl

 

My Grandfather was a tank driver in Normandy and on his return told my Grandmother of his journey through a village which made him think of her: my Grandmother's name was Matilda, and the village was, of course, 'Tilly' which is what she was known as.

 

i am now satisfied as to the tail on VZ-S and when the time comes will be able to dive into my 1/32 Tamiya kit with confidence when the time comes for what will be quite a special build for me.

 

thanks again to everyone who has helped

 

Kind regards

Nick

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13 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Some information and photos from Carl Vincent, who asked me to post the images for him.

 

"   I see that the topic of this photo, which I consider one of the most evocative images of the Normandy campaign, has been revived.

     As far as the Spitfire tail is concerned, I attach an enlargement from an original print of the photo that I obtained around 40 years ago. In my opinion,

     for what little it is worth, the pointed appearance is due to the angle of the rudder.

    I attach another four photos of a different incident which was also mentioned that I acquired from the Archives around the same time.

    I chose them from a considerably larger series, not being able to obtain the entire lot due to financial reasons. I find them quite interesting. "

 

    Carl

 

Chris, for Carl

 

 

Is it me being stupid (quiet at the back!) or does KH-T have the invasion stripes on one side of the fuselage, but not the other?

 

Tim

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