R I A T 2013

[Albeback52]

Well, was it worth it?

Now, I know that is a very subjective matter as, we all have our own views on good value etc. However, for the first time in a long time I didn't go. Due primarily to what I personally thought was an excessive admission fee AND, a (to me anyway) somewhat thin and uninspiring selection of display items. Put another way, certainly nothing to induce me to embark on an 800 mile round trip from Edinburgh with all associated travel costs etc!

Two of my friends DID go. They were so unimpressed they ended up leaving early on the Saturday and selling their Sunday tickets at Swindon station the next morning! They seemed to think the crowd was noticeably smaller as well although, that is sometimes hard to judge. I'm curious as to what others who were there thought of the event.

Allan

[alex]

I think the good old days of the air shows (especially the military ones) are gone. Why? In Central Europe, Harrier retired (some navys excluded), Jaguar retired, Starfighter retired, German F-4 retired, Saab Draken retired, F-111 retired, A-10 back in the US.... you can count the really interesting types with two hands: Typhoon, Tornado, Rafale, F-16, Mirage 2000, F-15 and Gripen. Maybe some minor types like the Hawk, Alpha Jet, Saab 105, AMX, that's it. Transport aircraft and helos can be interesting as well. But the trend is streamlining the flight line by multi-use-aircrafts, and the big ones are often converted civilian aircrafts. Which makes air shows less attractive then they used to.

We have a big airshow planned next year in Switzerland, I am courious who will be there. Actually, 3/4 of our neighbours use Eurofighter, and most of Europe fights with economic problems and shrinking defense budgets.

Alex

[AndyC]

Well I thought it was a good day out...worth it? Not sure overall (I went Saturday)

Plus points:

1. We were parked and in the place by 0810 after leaving my house at 0700, which is a record for me (usually 1.5hrs minimum)
2. I liked the food stations idea this year rather than having them dotted all over the place
3. Great displays by the Swedish Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon(s), MiG29, C-27, Frecce Tricolore. Also nice to see (and hear) the Red Bull B-25/F4U.
4. 2 minutes to get out car park at 1830 - some heavy traffic back to Blunsdon/Highworth but very good
5. Picked up some kits from Wonderland and Modelsforsale!

Minus points:

1. Pretty much nothing worth seeing in the static park compared to last year's bumper collection (IMO) except for that gorgeous Breitling Connie
2. My missus said she felt the display dragged a bit almost as though they were trying to fill gaps (Air Rescue demo/Wing-walkers) and I agree - too many fillers.
3. No US a/c - they make the show truly international and I missed the B-2/F-15/F-18/C-130/C-5/V-22 etc
4. The creeping corporatism of the whole thing - too many special viewing areas (with their premium prices) - the Spitfire Lawn was smack in the middle of where I sat last year

It's pricey, but you get to see a whole day of flying, can take some up-close pics of 'planes and enjoy aviation-related stuff. At that price though, it compares well with Premier League, Wimbledon, Twickenham or the Open.

[cardiff guy]

as you have said not a classic but was it the fault of the organizers , I think not. first the big thing missing was the Americans "any one know why." Secondly you can only ask country's to attend if they say no what more can you do ?

We live in an era of shrinking military budgets with not only shrinking air forces but shrinking flying types also many of these country's having aircraft away on operations these country's also have to justify the cost of sending aircraft to shows.

There are still a lot of different aircraft types out there but it will take a lot of effort and willing military budgets to get them here.

Regards Glenn

Edited July 26, 2013 by cardiff guy

[spruecutter96]

Evening, all...

I spent five days at Fairford last week, so I guess I'm a little biased on the "pro" side. While I appreciated that RIAT is nowhere near the size that it used to be 10 or 15 years ago, I'm of the opinion that it will NEVER get back to those kind of aircraft-participation levels. But the likelihood is... no air-show ever will, regardless of its location.

I think that you have to look at the positives when it comes to Fairford. Even at a reduced size, it is STILL easily the biggest show, with the greatest variety of aircraft you will see in the UK (if not Europe). I'm sure that other Euro shows would love to have half the stuff that came to Fairford this year. Last year was a bumper year by modern standards, but was handicapped by some fairly unpleasant weather.

I understand why people hark back to the "golden days" so regularly, but those days are simply over. We need to make the best of what we get now. On the subject of cost, I've been told that to STAND UP in a grand-stand for several hours at the British Formula One race will cost you nearly 100 quid these days... by comparison, Fairford seems like VERY good value for money to me. What does anyone else think?

Cheers.

Chris.

PS: There was no Yank hardware this year due to massive US government budget cuts, resulting in a banning of serving aircraft appearing at shows (apparently it's called "sequestration"). This has lead to a number of American air-shows having been cancelled.

[jonas_415]

Well, I went and thought the flying display was superb on the Sunday. 2 Typhoons and an Italian K767, Polish Mig 29, Rafale, 2 different Grippen routines, 2 different Typhoon displays, the Reds and the Atlas, The French, Italian and Swiss PC7 teams, Vulcan, Catalina, Corsair and Mitchell. My personal highlight was the C27 - incredible display.

There was a bit of filler in the form of the Wingwalkers and Eurocopter service thingy - but these were two major sponsors of the show, and usually there is a bit of boring stuff in the air whatever show you go to. No Grob Tutor this year, or gliders, who normally fill the naff lunchtime slot.

Was it worth £40, for 8 hours flying? Yes. Was the static thinner than previous years? Massively. But it still contained gems, from the Estonian An-2 to the Super Connie.

I've been to every one since its been at Fairford (as well as Boscome and Cottesmore) and I still absolutely love the Air Tattoo. This year was the first we decided not to bother on the Monday for departures but that doesn't mean the show day wasn't superb.

I think we've been spoiled in the past, and RIAT has set the bar so high it'll never shake off the tag of not being as good as it used to be, no matter what they do.

[Radleigh]

It was worth it for me forgetting that I got a free ticket I would of still paid the fee if I had to, I haven't been for a few years now and being the aviation nut that I am, anything goes. Really great to spend a whole day looking, listening and photographing all different types of aircraft and helicopters regardless of no USAF, a kick in the teeth yes, but with the way the world is we should be lucky that we still get a great show every year like it.

If you haven't already seen, some of my photos here - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234943469-my-riat-2013-page-2-update/ (still being updated)

A favourite moment for me, the Spartan doing loop the loops!

[Jinxman]

I attended with a couple of buddies on Thursday and Friday; the weather was fantastic, and we had an excellent, relaxing couple of days. The company and change of scenery was as important as the arrivals and validations I suppose.

The FRIAT stand looked very sparsely populated on both days, and one of the guys was at West park & view on Wednesday and said there were no more than 50 people in it.

I live about 65 miles away and so it is an easy decision to go or not dependent on the weather etc. If I lived 400 miles away? To be honest there was nothing there that important for me to see.

I had access to a complimentary ticket for Saturday if I had needed it but already had plenty of shots, and the weather forecast was mediocre so I didn't bother. (The queuing puts me off as well!).

It will never be the same as it once was, but no organiser in the world can (realistically/economically) get all the aircraft into one place for one show that we want to see.

I understood that both days were sell outs (?) - and if an organiser can sell all the tickets, and fill all of the corporate and special enclosures, the voice of the aviation enthusiast kind of gets lost a little I think.

[noiseboy]

I went on the Saturday, and thought it was fun, but the static park was dull, there was too much filler in the air, there weren't nearly enough toilets or food outlets, and I don't think the Service Station concept worked- it was too concentrated and the basic amenities should be absolutely everywhere when there's going to be many thousands of people in attendance.

Some great displays, but I found the RAF Typhoon a bit underwhelming, and I just can't understand why the Wingwalkers are still a 'thing' (I suspect it's because the girls all look a bit 'vaguely upmarket page 3' and so therefore are good for ground based advertising and sponsorship, but in the air- boring as hell and who cares what they look like?!). So, so boring- if it was a TV show, the Wingwalkers section would be when you'd go to the toilet or put the kettle on.

[noiseboy]

The Dutch Apache and F-16 were bloody amazing though.

[oggy4624]

Civvi creep.

Nice photo op but did anyone attending on saturday cop the' BRITAINS largest military airshow' - huge drop from the worlds largest.

I knew it was going to be bad, but when the civil list and the cancellations were longer than the 'military' effort - suck city!

[Flankerman]

I didn't attend - for the first time in years - but I did photograph the A-380 and A-400M in the holding pattern over my house.

Does anyone know if the A-380 was a regular flight with passengers - or a crew training flight with empty seats??

I.E - a regular passenger flight that was 'diverted' to formate with the Reds before going onto its normal flight - I know highly unlikely given the 'danger' of such a formation.

IIRC, didn't Concorde divert from a scheduled flight to do a fly-by at a previous RIAT?? - what a coup for the passengers.

Just curious........

Ken

[Radleigh]

Does anyone know if the A-380 was a regular flight with passengers - or a crew training flight with empty seats??

Ken

Empty I think Ken.

[Alpha Delta 210]

Does anyone know if the A-380 was a regular flight with passengers - or a crew training flight with empty seats??

Hi Ken

As Radleigh says, it was empty, as it hasn't yet entered fare-earning service and is operating out of Manston for crew-training. According to the commentator, its first in-service route will be very long-haul - Frankfurt! I guess this will be used for shake-down and additional crew-training.

[jonas_415]

I've never understood why Wingwalkers are considered an attraction! But if giving them a slot meant Breitling were more inclined to send the Connie I guess it was worth it.

[AndyC]

I understood that both days were sell outs (?) - and if an organiser can sell all the tickets, and fill all of the corporate and special enclosures, the voice of the aviation enthusiast kind of gets lost a little I think.

I don't believe it if they were - I think that is what RIAT PR says - no way was that a sell-out

[Flankerman]

its first in-service route will be very long-haul - Frankfurt!

I wonder if they'll use the old joke........

Petulant Frankfurt ATC - trying to give taxi instructions....... "Speedbird XXX - Have you never been to Frankfurt before?"

Speedbird XXX - "Yes - in 1944 - but we didn't land!!"

Ken

PS - Thanks for the info Radleigh and Alfa Delta 210

[Albeback52]

Interesting variety of comments. I cannot argue with the "value for money compared to........" argument because, it is absolutely true! . As for the time fillers? Well, the answer is simple. Reduce the length of the flying display? Instead of 10.00 am - 18.00 (or whatever), reduce it 12.00 - 18.00? I'd personally rather see a shorter but, continuous & uninterrupted display than have to sit through big gaps watching the empty air fly past!!. As for the admission cost, it was, for me just too high - no matter HOW good the value for money may have been. It wasn't a decision I made lightly.

Allan

ps - Flankerman , you are right. I was there that day & still have the photos!

[Radleigh]

Thought I would post this as I was there on Sunday, so saw the Reds + A400M.

MB9T7045 by Rainbow 1984, on Flickr

[Team Aer Lingus]

Hi all

I attended both days with my nephew having travelled from Medway we got bus from Swindon train station & we were both impressed by Stagecoach's handling of bus transfers and the new quicker entrance at the Red gate. Queues were much shorter this year! The flying displays were excellent both days especially the Spartan and Italian EF2000 Mig29 Red Bull B-25 Chinook Dutch combo Vulcan & A400 etc. The wingwalkers do leave me cold but a lot of kids and families around us thought the were great so I guess there is a demand for different aircraft at all shows Although the static line up wasnt great there were some gems Like the Canberra Connie AN-2 & for us the opportunity to look inside our Casa 235 big thanks to all the lads from 103 Squadron .

I think it does represent value for money even without the USAF but the service centre concept needs tweaking

We are both Looking forward to next year

[Navy Bird]

PS: There was no Yank hardware this year due to massive US government budget cuts, resulting in a banning of serving aircraft appearing at shows (apparently it's called "sequestration"). This has lead to a number of American air-shows having been cancelled.

Not sure I'd call culling the US budget by 2.5% a "massive cut." And on top of that, it was 2.5% off of the budget that had been increased from the year before. The dire predictions made by the US administration and the media regarding the effects of sequestration have not happened - and they won't. The cuts simply aren't big enough.

Cutting air show participation is a way to create demand among the citizens for a return to full funding. It's like when a school budget doesn't get passed the first thing they cut is athletics, music, art, bus transportation, etc. After everyone complains the budget passes on the second vote.

I really don't know what the big deal is. I find 2.5% cost savings all the time - it's called managing my company. Give me a shot at it - I bet I can find more than 2.5% and maintain air show participation at the same time.

Cheers,

Bill

[Filler]

I went on the Thursday, (p&v east), the Sunday and the Monday (p&v east again). Overall I really enjoyed it as I hadn’t been to a show (except Yeolvilton the weekend before) since the mid-nineties. However, like all enthusiasts, there is a terrible sense of longing for a stronger variety of types and greater numbers but as has been said over and over; we’ll never have another cold war. I think that despite the disappointment we need to grab what we have and make the most of it as I firmly believe that in another ten or 15 years we will be looking at a couple of UAV’s if there is an airshow at all.

Overall I thought the flying display was quite good – and besides, what can anyone do about Typhoons, Rafales and Grippens all being the same shape and painted grey?

Perhaps the biggest disappointment for me more than the shrinking of RIAT is the shrinking of the wider airshow scene. I was leafing through a Red Arrows magazine from the early 80’s the other day and the list of events for the season was amazing. It included open days, at home days, air fetes and tattoos at places including RIAT at Greenham, Fairford open day, Alconbury, Mildenhall, St Mawgan, Upper Heyford, Biggin Hill, Church Fenton, Valley, Woodford, Finningley, Leuchars and a few others.

Anyway, I don’t think that the cost of tickets is bad in comparison to many sports events, music concerts or theme parks. Hell, I spent half the RIAT ticket price using NCP car parks over a two day trip to North Yorkshire with my girlfriend.

Hopefully next year the USAF will be back to pad out the static line up and perhaps being a Farnborough year we might get a couple of more unusual items at the show. A Tornado doing a proper display would be nice too. And maybe the future is going to need to rely a bit more of historic items. The Vulcan, Vixen and now the Canberra (and Hunters) would all make a great boost to the flying line up.

One thing for sure though is that after this year’s weaker show and the spectacular weather, sods law next year the yanks will be back, the Russians or Chinese will send something cool and it will absolutely tip it down all weekend!!

[JaseGill]

I have a theory here, mildly backed up with being on the display circuit for a while.

It used to be the case that a lot of the Military Trucker fleet were favourites of Tim Prince. When these became less of a priority the Fast Jet guys no longer had (free) support flown in on the trucks ( C130, C5, KC10 etc).

For instance, USA declined the invite. Had say MAC been bringing a bunch of C130's or C5's the load for say the A10c demo team would have been almost free (engineers, spares etc) if you ignore fuel load. Multiply this across as few trucks and a few teams and you see an almost viable attendance.

That added to the fact that RIAT no longer subsidises fuel and the deployed nature of our Armed Forces worldwide was always going to limit RIAT in the long run.

[thomastmcc]

seems to be the same all over no us military aircraft at any shows ...

sad days...