trumpeter/hobbyboss bad press? are they this bad

[Enzo the Magnificent]

Factoid..... Airfix is owned by the illuminati!!!

No really, heard it from a bloke....

Actually, I can believe that. Airfix seem to be part of a conspiracy to make me bankrupt in very short order.

[Karl]

Well said Allan

When it gets to the stage that you dare not post any of your builds through fear of being told that your model is not inacurate - just because it came from the wrong manufacturer, and despite of how well you built or painted or decald it - you know something is going wrong somewhere.

I recently completed an Academy F15E; I wont post it on any forum as when I asked about its accuracy I was told that its only worth space in the bin- "Keep the weapons and bin the rest...." apparently.

I did finish it, however and ( after doing quite a few scratch built modifications ) I think it looks good. but thats just me....

Karl.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

I recently completed an Academy F15E; I wont post it on any forum as when I asked about its accuracy I was told that its only worth space in the bin- "Keep the weapons and bin the rest...." apparently.

Post it here!

In the next couple of months BM will be hosting a Obsolete Kits GB. Maybe we should have a similar GB called the Unbuildable Kits GB.

This would be for all the kits which have been widely slated in reviews. GB entrants could build them OOB simply to enjoy the build or they could go to town in the accuracy department and provide a masterclass in how to improve the kit.

[Laurent]

Maybe we should have a similar GB called the Unbuildable Kits GB.

This would be for all the kits which have been widely slated in reviews. GB entrants could build them OOB simply to enjoy the build or they could go to town in the accuracy department and provide a masterclass in how to improve the kit.

I like the idea a lot but I don't like the name of the GB. I'd prefer something like "Hopelessly Inaccurate Kits GB". Very few rivet-counters/shape nazis/whateverYouCallThem would say that a kit is "unbuildable". I wouldn't.

Some of latest builds were HIKs (1/72 Airfix Bf-109G, Matchbox MiG-21MF) and I enjoyed building them a lot. I have a "rivet-counting mode switch" that I switch on or off depending on the kit.

[Caerbannog]

I like the idea a lot but I don't like the name of the GB. I'd prefer something like "Hopelessly Inaccurate Kits GB". Very few rivet-counters/shape nazis/whateverYouCallThem would say that a kit is "unbuildable". I wouldn't.

Some of latest builds were HIKs (1/72 Airfix Bf-109G, Matchbox MiG-21MF) and I enjoyed building them a lot. I have a "rivet-counting mode switch" that I switch on or off depending on the kit.

:-) There are quite enough challenges out there. The worst one I ever bought was not an airplane but a 1:1 classic Star Trek comunicator (a very long time ago), which has a completely different shape and size and I regard this one the most "hopelessly inaccurate kit" I have. IMHO there is not one part of use included so a corrected build in such a GB would be a complete scratch build. Sure it is an extreme example and the suggested GB would be fun for sure.

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

"Good morning Jon

I really must disagree with you here. Your first comment seems (to me anyway) to be more than a little petulant. Obviously, I can only speak for myself but, I would be grateful if you could enlighten me as to why you seem to think that (as a fully paid up member of the don't care brigade!) that I should think my fun is "spoiled" by the comments of those to whom accuracy is all important? While I do not wish or intend to offend, it seems to me that it is those to whom "accuracy is all" seem to think that THEY are in the right and, that nobody should dare challenge their wisdom?

I have some difficulty in accepting that because, it very much smacks of the "there are two types of modeller" suggestion which has cropped up here before. These two types being (1) enthusiast and, (2) hobbyist with, (2) being defined as those who do not take the hobby as seriously as (1). This is an attitude which I personally consider to be both arrogant and patronising. There are only MODELLERS!. There is no right way or wrong way. There is only the INDIVIDUAL way. We all indulge in the same hobby after all. With 45 years experience under my (ample) belt, I consider myself to be an "enthusiastic hobbyist" but, I do not think I am less of a modeller as a result!

As for "shouting from the battlements"? Well, that is of course your prerogative and, far be it from me to impede you. May I respectfully suggest however that comments like "not liking the noise" are, once again, sounding just a little petulant. As if lesser mortals like me are some form of modelling heretic! . You may care to revisit my post with regard to the comment I made regarding research and accuracy. Believe it or not, I do care but, perhaps not for the same reason. I don't want modellers like yourself to have their fun "spoiled". I simply have more important things to worry about.

Now, it may be that I have misrepresented you entirely and, if that be the case then I apologise unreservedly in advance. I see no reason to change my stance however. This is a friendly disagreement (I hope!!) and, I would be personally delighted to have an opportunity to continue this (with anyone) over a few!!


ps - if anyone wishes to donate any of their "inaccurate" Trumpyboss kits to my favourite charity ( Al's Modelling Foundation) , I will gladly accept!
(Well, worth a try!!) :lol:"

Hi Allan

I'm all for friendly disagreement.

My point was or is, is that for those who profess to not care about a kits accuracy, there always seems to be an air of "you are spoiling our fun" by pointing out inaccuracies in models. Whenever a thread starts about a new kits "accuracy faults" such as the recent-ish Trumpy Vampire thread there were always those who dropped in with comments like, "we should be grateful they made it", "why do you have to slag off every new kit" or of course the famous, "well it looks like a xxx to me"

I have no problems with any of these views ( other than I disagree with them); but when they are posted in threads where a model's accuracy is being debated, examined and criticised by those who enjoy doing as such, they seem to me to be rather petulant.

Its almost as though, having decided you don't care about a models accuracy, you can't just think - "oh well these guys are having a good old banter about this model's problems. Well I'll leave the saddos alone to worry about the 2mm discrepancy in the flange fairing and get on with making models."

Instead it seems its a case of, "Well I just can't abide these saddos going on about the 2mm discrepancy in the flange fairing, I dont care if there's a problem, so Im going to tell them I don't care."

It's like your fun of not caring is being spoiled because others do care; which I find strange because if you don't care about accuracy, how can your fun be spoiled? And if it doesn't bother you, why do you need to tell those that it does bother, that you aren't bothered by it? I might as well join a pot-holing discussion forum and announce I don't really care about pot-holing.

Seems to me you are managing to spoil your own fun by getting upset with those that do care about accuracy, for caring. I don't think I've ever suggested someone not build a model because it has accuracy flaws, and would certainly never attack someone for building a kit with flaws: In fact I don't think I've ever seen an accuracy thread where someone has suggested that anyone who builds the model is somehow lesser.

But you may well be right - perhaps a few those that regard themselves as "enthusiasts" do think in slightly lesser terms of those "hobbyists', but then I'm sure this happens in all pastimes and pursuits be it football to angling to mountain climbing, and Im sure they are also a few 'hobbyists" who regard "enthusiasts' as elitist snobs. Humanity always likes to categorises and compare in whatever walk of life it seems to me.

And if you find my tone petulant, I would point out that a comment like, "I don't want modellers like yourself to have their fun "spoiled". I simply have more important things to worry about." could be taken to patronisingly imply that I don't have more important things to worry about, and that ergo, I am some kind of obsessive. I assure you I don't let this type of thing bother me much at all. It only bothers me when I'm in hobby mode, and even then not all the time.

Just as you "continue to use my meagre skills in order to get the best result I can from what is provided", so do I. Except in my case in all honesty, I just would not find it enjoyable to build a model of, let's say, the new T/HB F-80 model from the box when I can plainly see that the intakes are wrong and the rear fuselage is horrible. You can enjoy such a kit, and I commend you for being able to do so.

I might find it more enjoyable to try and rectify these faults with some rebuilding or cross kitting, but you know what? I would actually like to be able to build the model without having to do that.

And that is why I find the T/HB attitude so annoying - these were shape faults that anyone could have seen in the CAD renders. The fact that they weren't suggests to me either no one at the company cares, or knows, or both. Well they need to do better than that if they want me to buy that kit.

Plainly there are not only modellers - we are divided into different subsets and divisions, just as we divide ourselves into such in the real world. We all share a common interest but how we pursue that interest is very different -in that you are correct, we are all individuals - cue LoB joke

all the best

Jonners

[Mike]

Jonners - in fairness, the "looks like an xxxx" modellers get the same derisive tone from the accuracy buffs. it's a six of one half-a-dozen of the other situation, so it's best just to walk away and go and do something productive, as you'll never stop those that like to try and impose their world view on others from having their say. In other words, the petulance door swings both ways.

The best you can do is try not to let it bother you, and not rise to the bait* when presented, no matter which side of the discussion you stand.

* bait may be the wrong word when it is said in all innocence, but we all know that there are maladjusted people out there that enjoy causing arguments. We call them trolls, and they aren't a welcome feature of any healthy forum.

[thepureness]

On this topic anyone managed to build the trumpy swordfish? If so any thoughts?

[JohnT]

On this topic anyone managed to build the trumpy swordfish? If so any thoughts?

Any reviews I read were favourable and it appears to be a good model though not got one myself

[mrobeson]

On this topic anyone managed to build the trumpy swordfish? If so any thoughts?

Swordfish is a really nice kit, but a bit fiddly with the struts. It goes together well, and has a lot of good detail.

Matt

[Admiral Puff]

I might find it more enjoyable to try and rectify these faults with some rebuilding or cross kitting, but you know what? I would actually like to be able to build the model without having to do that.

And that is why I find the T/HB attitude so annoying - these were shape faults that anyone could have seen in the CAD renders. The fact that they weren't suggests to me either no one at the company cares, or knows, or both. Well they need to do better than that if they want me to buy that kit.

Hear, hear!!

And that comment cannot be confined to Trumpy/HB. Look at Revell's new Halifax - a classic case of how to stuff things up. Revell could easily have got those nacelles right, but instead scrimped on R&D and elected to give us "a most unattractive old thing, tra la, with a caricature of a face". As they say in the Army (here, anyway ...), "Proper Preparation Prevents P***-Poor Performance".

[Amo Aero]

"Good morning Jon

I really must disagree with you here. Your first comment seems (to me anyway) to be more than a little petulant. Obviously, I can only speak for myself but, I would be grateful if you could enlighten me as to why you seem to think that (as a fully paid up member of the don't care brigade!) that I should think my fun is "spoiled" by the comments of those to whom accuracy is all important? While I do not wish or intend to offend, it seems to me that it is those to whom "accuracy is all" seem to think that THEY are in the right and, that nobody should dare challenge their wisdom?

I have some difficulty in accepting that because, it very much smacks of the "there are two types of modeller" suggestion which has cropped up here before. These two types being (1) enthusiast and, (2) hobbyist with, (2) being defined as those who do not take the hobby as seriously as (1). This is an attitude which I personally consider to be both arrogant and patronising. There are only MODELLERS!. There is no right way or wrong way. There is only the INDIVIDUAL way. We all indulge in the same hobby after all. With 45 years experience under my (ample) belt, I consider myself to be an "enthusiastic hobbyist" but, I do not think I am less of a modeller as a result!

As for "shouting from the battlements"? Well, that is of course your prerogative and, far be it from me to impede you. May I respectfully suggest however that comments like "not liking the noise" are, once again, sounding just a little petulant. As if lesser mortals like me are some form of modelling heretic! . You may care to revisit my post with regard to the comment I made regarding research and accuracy. Believe it or not, I do care but, perhaps not for the same reason. I don't want modellers like yourself to have their fun "spoiled". I simply have more important things to worry about.

Now, it may be that I have misrepresented you entirely and, if that be the case then I apologise unreservedly in advance. I see no reason to change my stance however. This is a friendly disagreement (I hope!!) and, I would be personally delighted to have an opportunity to continue this (with anyone) over a few!!

ps - if anyone wishes to donate any of their "inaccurate" Trumpyboss kits to my favourite charity ( Al's Modelling Foundation) , I will gladly accept!

(Well, worth a try!!) :lol:"

Hi Allan

I'm all for friendly disagreement.

My point was or is, is that for those who profess to not care about a kits accuracy, there always seems to be an air of "you are spoiling our fun" by pointing out inaccuracies in models. Whenever a thread starts about a new kits "accuracy faults" such as the recent-ish Trumpy Vampire thread there were always those who dropped in with comments like, "we should be grateful they made it", "why do you have to slag off every new kit" or of course the famous, "well it looks like a xxx to me"

I have no problems with any of these views ( other than I disagree with them); but when they are posted in threads where a model's accuracy is being debated, examined and criticised by those who enjoy doing as such, they seem to me to be rather petulant.

Its almost as though, having decided you don't care about a models accuracy, you can't just think - "oh well these guys are having a good old banter about this model's problems. Well I'll leave the saddos alone to worry about the 2mm discrepancy in the flange fairing and get on with making models."

Instead it seems its a case of, "Well I just can't abide these saddos going on about the 2mm discrepancy in the flange fairing, I dont care if there's a problem, so Im going to tell them I don't care."

It's like your fun of not caring is being spoiled because others do care; which I find strange because if you don't care about accuracy, how can your fun be spoiled? And if it doesn't bother you, why do you need to tell those that it does bother, that you aren't bothered by it? I might as well join a pot-holing discussion forum and announce I don't really care about pot-holing.

Seems to me you are managing to spoil your own fun by getting upset with those that do care about accuracy, for caring. I don't think I've ever suggested someone not build a model because it has accuracy flaws, and would certainly never attack someone for building a kit with flaws: In fact I don't think I've ever seen an accuracy thread where someone has suggested that anyone who builds the model is somehow lesser.

But you may well be right - perhaps a few those that regard themselves as "enthusiasts" do think in slightly lesser terms of those "hobbyists', but then I'm sure this happens in all pastimes and pursuits be it football to angling to mountain climbing, and Im sure they are also a few 'hobbyists" who regard "enthusiasts' as elitist snobs. Humanity always likes to categorises and compare in whatever walk of life it seems to me.

And if you find my tone petulant, I would point out that a comment like, "I don't want modellers like yourself to have their fun "spoiled". I simply have more important things to worry about." could be taken to patronisingly imply that I don't have more important things to worry about, and that ergo, I am some kind of obsessive. I assure you I don't let this type of thing bother me much at all. It only bothers me when I'm in hobby mode, and even then not all the time.

Just as you "continue to use my meagre skills in order to get the best result I can from what is provided", so do I. Except in my case in all honesty, I just would not find it enjoyable to build a model of, let's say, the new T/HB F-80 model from the box when I can plainly see that the intakes are wrong and the rear fuselage is horrible. You can enjoy such a kit, and I commend you for being able to do so.

I might find it more enjoyable to try and rectify these faults with some rebuilding or cross kitting, but you know what? I would actually like to be able to build the model without having to do that.

And that is why I find the T/HB attitude so annoying - these were shape faults that anyone could have seen in the CAD renders. The fact that they weren't suggests to me either no one at the company cares, or knows, or both. Well they need to do better than that if they want me to buy that kit.

Plainly there are not only modellers - we are divided into different subsets and divisions, just as we divide ourselves into such in the real world. We all share a common interest but how we pursue that interest is very different -in that you are correct, we are all individuals - cue LoB joke

all the best

Jonners

Can I "Like" this a thousand times? You have distilled the very essence of these interminable "rivet-counter vs it's-good-enough-for-me" threads. Nuff said!

[mrobeson]

Someone did point out a good example that it's not just Trumpeter that screws up in the research department when they make kits, although they do seem to get roasted for it pretty often. Revell has had some problems with that, Eduard did a bit, even Hasegawa has issues from time to time.

Matt

[BWP]

Someone did point out a good example that it's not just Trumpeter that screws up in the research department when they make kits, although they do seem to get roasted for it pretty often.

Well, isn't that the point of the thread?

I think (hope) that we can all agree that there are no companies that manage to get everything right, every time. Furthermore for every company that has different product lines (i.e., aircraft, tanks, ships, etc.) it's usually the case that the different product lines can enjoy (or suffer from) different reputations -- people may generally love SuperHobbyPlastic's aircraft kits but the same company's tank kits usually make people laugh, and not in a good way. Clearly in such cases there are different "teams" involved who approach their subjects in very different ways.

The issue then becomes one of consistency within that particular product line. If a company's aircraft kits are consistently awful you just avoid them. If they're consistently good (by whatever definition of "good" that you choose to apply) then you pay attention to their new releases. Trumpeter seem to get a lot of stick because they just don't have that consistency so far as accuracy goes, although for people not specifically looking for accuracy then there seem to be far fewer complaints. Is the Trumpeter-bashing fair? Depends -- what length of string are you using to measure them by?

[D1fuN0]

The Splendid Cats GB starts tomorrow and im building a Trumpeter (yes! Gosh) Italian Puma AFV, and im too scared to start it now incase someone posts that the non return spring doohickey thats attached to the flange wotsit is 1.34mm too short, or that there should be 138 rivets on the hull and they count only 129...

I think this thread is getting a bit silly now, simply because folks really cant get thier heads around the fact that people are entitled to their own opinion. I can understand the wingy thing chaps, saying some of the models arent accurate, and I respect their opinion, they know more about the subject than me.

Everytime there's a Trumpeter thread, it just drops into the cesspool of kitbashing, which, in my opinion, is just not on, (look back at the Albatross thread, hell that was about the box, not even the kit).

So, im going to carry on building my Trumpeter AFV's, regardless of the fact they are inaccurate/ too big small/ wrong colour or whether they fund the PLA, PO, Illuminati, The Waltons, Wombles or hell, even the Daleks ongoing quest to destroy the earth.

Can I just ask one thing. Consider everyone else on this site before you post your 'opinion'.

Think about it, there are chaps that have experience from 1 year, to 50 years on the site, and the new guys look to the experienced chaps for advice, help etc.

Its so easy to form an opinion in someones mind simply by posting your opinion on this site and actually steering people away from kits that they want to build, but dont, because they read it on here (and im not just talking about Trumpeter).

Keep the faith chaps

Steve

Edited July 19, 2013 by MAD STEVE

[Chaotic Mike]

(don't get me going on Lightnings)

OK, what about Revell Uhus, then? ;-)

Mike

[drdave]

The swordfish is lovely. Fit is great and detail good. Slats moulded closed unfortunately and it comes with really tough PE flat rigging cut to length, which I didn't like. I think the torpedo is the wrong mark. Decals too bright as usual but I did a prewar silver one with the excellent xtradecal set. It's big.

There's some spurious lower wing rigging on the plan that you should be aware of. It's strong enough to have the wings open though.

Edited July 19, 2013 by drdave

[Dave Fleming]

With Trumpeter, it depends on their source material! Some of their kits obvously use other kits as starting points - the Swordfish for example is rumoured to have used the tamiya 1/48th one for example, their FW200s, the Koster kit.

[Laurent]

The Splendid Cats GB starts tomorrow and im building a Trumpeter (yes! Gosh) Italian Puma AFV, and im too scared to start it now incase someone posts that the non return spring doohickey thats attached to the flange wotsit is 1.34mm too short, or that there should be 138 rivets on the hull and they count only 129...

I think this thread is getting a bit silly now, simply because folks really cant get thier heads around the fact that people are entitled to their own opinion. I can understand the wingy thing chaps, saying some of the models arent accurate, and I respect their opinion, they know more about the subject than me.

Everytime there's a Trumpeter thread, it just drops into the cesspool of kitbashing, which, in my opinion, is just not on, (look back at the Albatross thread, hell that was about the box, not even the kit).

So, im going to carry on building my Trumpeter AFV's, regardless of the fact they are inaccurate/ too big small/ wrong colour or whether they fund the PLA, PO, Illuminati, The Waltons, Wombles or hell, even the Daleks ongoing quest to destroy the earth.

Can I just ask one thing. Consider everyone else on this site before you post your 'opinion'.

Think about it, there are chaps that have experience from 1 year, to 50 years on the site, and the new guys look to the experienced chaps for advice, help etc.

Its so easy to form an opinion in someones mind simply by posting your opinion on this site and actually steering people away from kits that they want to build, but dont, because they read it on here (and im not just talking about Trumpeter).

Keep the faith chaps

Steve

Hi Steve,

The accuracy guys should stick to facts like "such an such antennas shouldn't be there in this version of the aircraft". The problems occur when "colourful" opinions are expressed: saying "the nose is off and here's why...(photo provided for argumentation)" is very different from "oh god... they screwed up the nose again... it's off because blablabla... this kit is a POS". The first type is informative and the reader is left to decide if he'll take the info in account or not. The second type is kitbashing and I personally don't like it. What I also don't like is when a non-accuracy guy agressivelly reacts to any accuracy guy post even if the guy wasn't kitbashing. I wouldn't be surprised if such kind of post would be the majority in accuracy discussions. I know a French forum where the moderators have decided "what modelling is about" and the accuracy guys are bad guys. I don't hang around there because few infos can be found in this forum. Is BM a forum that assumes that you know "what modelling is about" ? I hope not.

Cheers,

Laurent

Edited July 19, 2013 by Laurent

[Norman]

Blimey !!! i don't log in for a while and all hell breaks loose, can i just say in all seriousness

i like everybody's models shown on the forum ,i agree with every opinion expressed, every kit manufacturers models wether accurate or not, i intend to buy everything ,build everything, love every decal sheet and add on kit, i believe everything is priced fairly and all model company's including ''Trumpy''/''HB'' really care about me and you !!!! and love being derided by some of us and i also believe they take notice of these opinions and will take immediate steps to change their ways !!!!!!!! and give us all what we want !

Oh and i also believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause and the tooth fairy

Cheers

[D1fuN0]

Hi Laurent

I agree totally with you.

If a chap posts a thread that says, the nose, or wheel or whatever is off, and then provide like photograpic proof or what have you, it is completely different to someone saying the nose isnt right, oh god, here we go again with (insert manufacturer here).

I always abide by a simple rule, if you know nothing about a subject, dont comment!. I will not comment on aircraft, because I know nothing about them and couldnt tell you whats right and whats not, but you are correct, people that comment on issues they no nothing about usually ends up in a free for all.

Steve

[Brad]

Personally speaking, I've been burned by Trumpeter and Hobby Boss so many times I have stopped buying these at retail. I've found that their kits tend to have lots of fit issues, quality control problems and pretty poor molding of parts. They suffer of being totally unable at times, to mold a straight mating surface between parts or they just hit it with an ejector pin. Some parts are completely wrong and in their BR 52 Locomotive in 1/32, every sprue was misaligned so much so I considered taking it back as unsatisfactory for sale and I know it wasn't just mine. Basic errors are also frustrating, such as the Hobby Boss 1/32 Spitfire Vb, the canopy is totally wrong. I don't know if they are just don't care or don't realise, but either way I'm glad I picked up the kit at 30% off, making obtaining corrections less damaging.

It's a shame as they make kits that most other companies won't. They clearly have the ability to take on Tamiya or Hasegawa in terms of quality and accuracy, yet they seem to think they can just churn out their kits that are kinda right and sorta fit while asking the price of an equivalent Tamigawa model. I also noticed that many so called reviews, fail to mention fit problems, thus my rule about not paying retail for their kits.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Brad

[Giorgio N]

Yes, there are some accuracy issues, but it seems like a lot of people who have big problems with that are those that sit and complain on the internet instead of building.

And this comment is based on what ? Do you know personally all the people who have criticised accuracy issues in Trumpeter/HB kits or is this just the usual "ah but those rivet counters never build anything" kind of stereotypical comments that gets circulated over the internet ? 'cause if it's the latter, it's not worth much more than all the other stereotypical internet comments, that is IMHO a bit less than the rubbish I've just dumped outside my house

Edited July 19, 2013 by Giorgio N

[Space Ranger]

How do you know this any proof????

No proof (that Trumpeter is owned by the Chinese PLA), but some strong circumstantial evidence. The parent company is an electronic parts company, which means that most likely and in all probability the company is a Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) enterprise. That's been a major Chines business model for years.

The PLA is a "self supporting" military. It has extensive control over various industries. The PLA is probably one of the a largest "business owners" in China. Ultimately it is all Party control as the Party is the State, and the PLA is part of the state. But it actually funds part of its budget through business ownership.

They are involved in everything from medicine to cars to steel to electronics.

The best part is being in a a meeting with Chinese businessmen and trying to figure who is the Party man and who is from the PLA. By the time the meeting is over, you know.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5796

http://www.economicexpert.com/2a/People:s:Liberation:Army.html

During the 1980s and 1990s, the PLA became extensively involved in creating a business empire including companies in areas not normally associated with the military (i.e., travel and real estate). Much of the motivation for this was to supplement the PLA's normal budget, whose growth was restricted. Chairman Mao's belief that people and groups should be self-sufficient also played a role in the PLA's varied business interests. In the early 1990s, the leadership of the Communist Party and the high command of the PLA became alarmed that these business transactions were in conflict with the PLA's military mission. The business interests of the PLA were eroding military discipline, and there were reports of corruption resulting from the PLA businesses. As a result, the PLA was ordered to spin off its companies. Typically, the actual management of the companies did not change, but the officers involved were retired from active duty within the PLA and the companies were given private boards of retired PLA officers. Military units were compensated for the loss of profitable businesses with increased state funding.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Space Ranger

[D1fuN0]

Chaps.

Just do a wiki search on Trumpeter, and then on a company called Wasan plastic model company. They are the actual holding company for Trumpeter and Hobbyboss.

Steve