John Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Heathrow this time: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760 "Runways at London's Heathrow airport have closed after a fire on a parked Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 787 Dreamliner jet. Arrivals and departures were suspended after the incident at 16:30 BST, a spokesman for the airport said. No passengers were aboard at the time. Fifty Dreamliners worldwide were grounded in January because of battery malfunctions. Boeing later modified the jets with new batteries and flight resumed in April. An Ethiopian Airlines Dreamliner named the Queen of Sheba - the same plane involved in the Heathrow incident - flew from Addis Ababa to Nairobi on the first commercial flight since the grounding. Pictures of the Heathrow fire on Twitter show an aircraft close to a building and surrounded by fire vehicles. London Fire Brigade said its crews were standing by to assist Heathrow staff." John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Apparently one has had to make 'an emergency landing' at Manchester. I assume its Thomsons and as a precaution to the Ethiopian incident. I wonder how long they'll be grounded for this time? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwing1500 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Should it now be reclassified as the 787 Nightmare Liner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Must have been a bit scary for the passengers and crew... hope no-one was hurt & they get them back in the air soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The A/C was parked up on a remote stand at the time so no passengers involved. Coincidently the stand it was parked on is literally right next to the LHR fire station (building to the right). A friend of mine was meant to be despatching this flight tonight. I guess he will have an easier evening now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 At least they didn't have a long journey to the seat of the fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Looking at the pictures on the news the seat of the fire is in the roof at the base of the tail. Is that where the battery is located? Thomson's flight to Sandford btw circled over North Wales for half an hour to burn off fuel, before returning due to 'technical issues' according to North West Tonight. No further details. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Ba has comitted to buying the e ntire family of 787s wonder what their thinking now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Looking at the pictures on the news the seat of the fire is in the roof at the base of the tail. Is that where the battery is located? No, The main batteries are in the avionic deck under the cockpit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Ba has comitted to buying the e ntire family of 787s wonder what their thinking now "Oh dear, more teething problems with this brand new into service airliner, but we'll sort it", at a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 No, The main batteries are in the avionic deck under the cockpit..They are also at the back of the aircraft, not sure if the fire was in this area, heat rises so could have gone to the top of the aircraft. If its not the battery issue then the 787 has another problem. Boeing never did find the actual cause of the battery fires, they did re-design the area. As far as I can see all Thompson have said is that "a mechanical" issue forced a return for their aircraft. Will be interesting to see what this issue was. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The APU batteries on 787 are just behind the wing below the passenger deck. Check this, page 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Someone having a crafy fag in the crew rest area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirfixAndy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 As Bentwaters said ...just could be a shifty fag break but at the moment its news Boeing wont want and makes you wonder how many potential buyers and airlines with aircraft on order are having second thoughts about making commitments to buy Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrain Safe Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Guess this a hull loss. Trying to fix this in composite will be a no-no so an entire back half of the aircraft will be required! V expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pperkins Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 They are also at the back of the aircraft, not sure if the fire was in this area, heat rises so could have gone to the top of the aircraft. If its not the battery issue then the 787 has another problem. Boeing never did find the actual cause of the battery fires, they did re-design the area. As far as I can see all Thompson have said is that "a mechanical" issue forced a return for their aircraft. Will be interesting to see what this issue was. Julien boeing did find the cause it was due to over heating of the batterys which cause flash firte from the heat so they had to install air duct to remove the heart from the batters http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/25/us-boeing-dreamliner-idUSBRE93O0NI20130425 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patjb Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Ref Terrain Safe's post, repairs on the 787 aircraft composte skin have been of great interest to us engineers, no more "scab patches" rivetted on the side. The areas around the passenger doors have always been a favorite target area for ground handlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armadillos Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The APU batteries on 787 are just behind the wing below the passenger deck. Check this, page 7. Got to love the following comment on in the first note at the top of the page. "The box containing the lithium-ion battery cells is secured inside a reinforced stainless steel enclosure capable of containing a lithium-ion battery event." So just to clarify in English a lithium-ion battery event is a fire? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 So just to clarify in English a lithium-ion battery event is a fire? Not funny I know, but I couldn't help but chuckle at that. Looks like Boeing have dropped one with the 787. This will generate a lot of unrest with the airlines AND passengers. How come other models aren't affected? Different batteries? Different cooling systems? Solution seems obvious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders154 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Got to love the following comment on in the first note at the top of the page. "The box containing the lithium-ion battery cells is secured inside a reinforced stainless steel enclosure capable of containing a lithium-ion battery event." So just to clarify in English a lithium-ion battery event is a fire? Or explosion. The box housing the battery will contain the battery exploding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 My sources say that said A/C is in one of the BA hangers currently stinking the place out. Tight security with police about all morning and now the AAIB & NTSB on scene. Representatives from Boeing and Air Ethiopia are on their way. Talk is the A/C will be there for a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV571 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Looks like Boeing have dropped one with the 787. This will generate a lot of unrest with the airlines AND passengers. How come other models aren't affected? Different batteries? Different cooling systems? Solution seems obvious... The 787 is the first (and currently only) airliner with a Lithium ion battery system. Other aircraft use Ni Cad or NiMH batteries which contain less energy capacity and so have to be larger and heavier to produce the same power but won't have the same thermal issues as the Li-ion version. There are a lot more electrical systems on the 787 so use of weight saving battery technology was needed to meet the power requirements. I very much doubt this incident is related to the battery. As already mentioned, the APU battery is now effectively encased in a bomb- and fireproof container which is designed to vent to atmosphere if a thermal runaway event occurs. If the containment was breached any significant heat from a battery fire to affect the roof would mean the aft cargo ceiling linings and the passenger compartment floor have been burnt through and if that had happened it's possible the complete tail could break off. As I understand it, one potential source being investigated is the galley power system. Whatever the cause, it looks like a lot of damage and Boeing have a massive and complicated repair on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 well, you don't save much if you have to keep your ultralight batteries in 2"-thick steel cases, do you? Maybe it would have been better to stick to well-proven technology. Li-ion-batteries are known to go up in flames, from time to time. Laptop and cellphone manufacturer know this problem. Wondering what the cause really was. If it has to do with the batteries again, it will be uncomfortable for Boeing... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Seems it was a battery problem after all - though not the ones that people were talking about: http://news.sky.com/story/1117523/heathrow-dreamliner-fire-caused-by-a-battery Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Oooer... Lithium Manganese? Not heard of that one, but I suppose it's just a variation on the Lithium Ion theme. L-ion batteries aren't a problem until they get overcharged, shorted out or mis-handled (puncture or trauma, usually). Other batteries will do similar things when damaged, but I think L-ion gets a bad rap because the reaction is a bit more fierce. Google L-ion battery fire if you fancy a bit of a shock about how violent the reaction is. If you treat your batteries (any type) with respect though, they're plenty safe 99% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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