British cockpit colours - history from WWII till today ?

[Caerbannog]

Hi all,

I tried to find a topic on the cockpit colours used for british military aircrafts and could not find any specific timeline or such. What I wonder is if there are specific dates when the WWII cockpit green (like Spitfire) was changed to black (as used for the DH Vampire) and when the black cockpit colour was changed to grey (Phantoms...). Was black introduced directly after WWII or already in late war months?

I have currently two subjects for which I do not know the correct cockpit colour:

1. The DH Swallow experimental aircraft (black???) and

2. The EE Lighning Mk6 in NMF. I read somewhere that early Mk 6 had still the black cockpits but cannot find this information and know that nothing specific was told. When was the Lightning cockpit colour changed from black to grey?

Cheers,

René

[sloegin57]

Hi all,

I tried to find a topic on the cockpit colours used for british military aircrafts and could not find any specific timeline or such. What I wonder is if there are specific dates when the WWII cockpit green (like Spitfire) was changed to black (as used for the DH Vampire) and when the black cockpit colour was changed to grey (Phantoms...). Was black introduced directly after WWII or already in late war months?

I have currently two subjects for which I do not know the correct cockpit colour:

1. The DH Swallow experimental aircraft (black???) and

2. The EE Lighning Mk6 in NMF. I read somewhere that early Mk 6 had still the black cockpits but cannot find this information and know that nothing specific was told. When was the Lightning cockpit colour changed from black to grey?

Cheers,

René

Hmmmmmm.............

Dennis

[Caerbannog]

:-) yes I think so and look very much fortward to it haha

René

Edited July 2, 2013 by Caerbannog

[Edgar]

Green remained in day (only) fighters up to, and including, the Spitfire 22/24; fighters that were also intended for night use, like the 40-series Seafires, Sea Fury, Meteors and Vampires, went over to black from the start, but nightfighter Mosquitoes did not. Being (basically) a conversion of the Vampire/Venom fuselage, the DeH 108 was likely to have been black.

To confuse matters, slightly (!!!) Typhoons, Tempests and Seafire 17s could be half-and-half (top black,) with late Typhoons all-black, and, for some reason, occasional Spitfire 21s & 19s were black.

Hunters were black, except for the RN T.8M, which was grey. Lightnings I/Ia (possibly the 2) were black, grey from 3 onwards.

Edgar

Edited July 3, 2013 by Edgar

[Caerbannog]

Hi Edgar,

thanks for this excellent summary. I will pin it to my Spray Booth :-)

So all Mk6 Lightnings had grey cockpits? I never saw a picture of a back Mk6 Cockpit but read somewhere that early 6 were still black - so this Info was definitely wrong?

Cheers

Rene

[Edgar]

Very definitely wrong, since the Mk.3 was grey; it's possible that the Mk.2 had a black cockpit (I've never seen one,) so that converted F.2A airframes remained black, but that remains a guess. There are (or were) F.2A airframes left in Germany (as gate guards?) but I don't know if they still exist, and the last F.2, in this country, was unceremoniously scrapped several years ago, though the cockpit might still be held somewhere.

Edgar

[jenko]

, and the last F.2, in this country, was unceremoniously scrapped several years ago, though the cockpit might still be held somewhere.

Edgar

Still around and resides in Malta......

http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?regsearch=XN769

Cockpit is grey

HTH

Edited July 5, 2013 by jenko

[Caerbannog]

Very Good! Thanks a Lot for your help.

René

[Wez]

Wow! This is a great shot http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=385381&nseq=3 as it shows the cockpit with at least a partial OR.946 IFICS instrumentation!

I've long wondered whether the F.2A's received any of this fit, partially or otherwise and it looks as though they did and provided the restoration is authentic, the cockpits were painted at the same time.

OR.946 instrumentation was introduced with the Lightning Mk3, the cockpit colour changed then, prior to this it was black (which includes the T.4 which was based on the F.1A). The F.2A's being upgrades from F2's obviously received some of this instrumentation which is sensible and maintained a level of commonality with the UK fleet.

IIRC, the OR.946 was based upon instrumentation developed for the TSR.2 which had a grey cockpit. Buccaneer and Gnat used a variation of this instrumentation too, they had grey cockpits.

Generally, Hunters, Canberras, Meteors and Vampires had black cockpits but I remember working on a Canberra B.15 (conversion of the B.6) at Cosford which had a grey cockpit (dark admiralty grey), which had been slapped over the original black - it looked gash as f***! It looked as though they'd placed a tin of grey paint in the cockpit, dropped a thunderflash and retired to a safe distance until all of the noise had died down! The bits that missed out on this treatment looked like they'd been painted with a bass broom (stiff yard brush to non-military types).

Did the Hunter T.8M's get a full grey cockpit? I've seen pictures of T.8's which have had a partial cockpit upgrade, most of the cockpit is black except for the upgrade. Happy to be wrong on this.

Tonka had a grey cockpit as did the Toom and Harriers, Jag's I believe had black cockpits

Wez

Edited July 5, 2013 by Wez

[sloegin57]

Very definitely wrong, since the Mk.3 was grey; it's possible that the Mk.2 had a black cockpit (I've never seen one,) so that converted F.2A airframes remained black, but that remains a guess. There are (or were) F.2A airframes left in Germany (as gate guards?) but I don't know if they still exist, and the last F.2, in this country, was unceremoniously scrapped several years ago, though the cockpit might still be held somewhere.

Edgar

For what it's worth Edgar, the two decoys we had at Leuchars, F.2A's XN776 and '781, both had grey cockpits. '776 was later refurbished at Leuchars for the museum at East Fortune. What colour the cockpit was painted, I have no idea.

Dennis

[Dave Fleming]

Wow! This is a great shot http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=385381&nseq=3 as it shows the cockpit with at least a partial OR.946 IFICS instrumentation!

I've long wondered whether the F.2A's received any of this fit, partially or otherwise and it looks as though they did and provided the restoration is authentic, the cockpits were painted at the same time.

OR.946 instrumentation was introduced with the Lightning Mk3, the cockpit colour changed then, prior to this it was black (which includes the T.4 which was based on the F.1A). The F.2A's being upgrades from F2's obviously received some of this instrumentation which is sensible and maintained a level of commonality with the UK fleet.

Digging this one out (as I was looking for confirmation of the colour of F2A cockpits!) - It's an interesting shot because as far as I know, XN769 was never converted to F2A, but served as an F2 until retirement