Max Headroom Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Elsewhere Iain (Cplrafman) had a thread on building AR213 57 OTU's famous red/white/blue nosed Spitfire. I chipped in with a link to a picture of its twin AR212...... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?s=345a5c8968a08c3688006d09d1caf306&attachmentid=4430418 I first saw this photo back in the 80's in the Merseyside Aviation Society's in house magazine Flypast. Years later FlyPast (there is a story about the 'P' in the latter) had a spread on '213 and its striped nose. On Iain's thread the colour of 212's nose has sort of hijacked the thread. Conventional 'wisdom' has its nose being yellow, but now white is being suggested instead. Ok let's play interpret b/w pix! Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 My guess is white or sky as it's too light to be yellow - the yellow ring around the roundel is a darker shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Trevor, you do appreciate that the second pic, the one with the starter cart plugged in, is not a photograph but a rendering off a flight simulator program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Trevor, you do appreciate that the second pic, the one with the starter cart plugged in, is not a photograph but a rendering off a flight simulator program? Yes but as the pic was the only one I could find on t'internet (and btw is the only illustration I've seen of it anyway) I went with it. So then, white, yellow or sky?! Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I'll stick my neck out as say white. However, whichever one you do, some smartarse will always say it's wrong. Just go with your gut instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Can of worms here! The nose 'seems' to be a lighter shade than the outer ring of the roundel. Undecided whether its the same colour as the Sky band. BTW is it me or are the squadron codes a different colour to the individual code letter? As I said, a can of worms......... Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandaire Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) I tend to agree with white, I tend to think it was painted white the same as Ginger's aircraft but he had the stripes painted on his. In the photo it does look lighter than yellow as others have said, plus I think it would have been dangerous flying around with a yellow nose in those days as that was often used as a recognition feature by Germans on the Me109 and could have led to a bit of "friendly fire" coming your way. Edited June 23, 2013 by Dandaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) White. As I said on the other thread the purpose is to make it conspicuous in the combat training role, so a camo colour like Sky would have been self-defeating. White was also used on AR213, albeit with additional red and blue stripes. Yellow - well, the difference against the yellow of the roundel does not suggest a yellow nose, and I also suggest that the prevalence of yellow on the nose of opposing Luftwaffe fighters would make yellow a foolhardy choice for a Spitfire. Edited June 23, 2013 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 All the above interpretations and theories are reasonable ... But before that photo was published, an ex-57 OTU instructor, Frank Jensen (who later commanded the first RP Typhoon squadron, the first Tempest II squadron etc), told me that he used to fly a Spit there which he referred to as the 'yellow jumper' in which he cruised around the training area and bounced unsuspecting students. It was deliberately painted to resemble a German fighter. No proof that it was the one in the photo but it looks a fair bet to me. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 All the above interpretations and theories are reasonable ... But before that photo was published, an ex-57 OTU instructor, Frank Jensen (who later commanded the first RP Typhoon squadron, the first Tempest II squadron etc), told me that he used to fly a Spit there which he referred to as the 'yellow jumper' in which he cruised around the training area and bounced unsuspecting students. It was deliberately painted to resemble a German fighter. No proof that it was the one in the photo but it looks a fair bet to me. CT I agree. The ORB for 58 OTU talks about "jumpers" painted to resemble Luftwaffe fighters and used by instructors to train their students in dogfighting techniques. At least one student pilot was killed while trying to evade a "jumper" and flying into the ground. I have always assumed that, at the very least, spinners and rudders were painted either red or yellow. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpiomikey Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Im voting white, compare it to the white stripe in the tricolour on the tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpiomikey Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Just out of curiosity, were there any other "Jumpers" in the squadron painted differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I hope nobody has loaded their airbrush with white just yet. I have just received, from Steve Brooking, a photo of a page in James Storrar's logbook (later owner of Spit IX YT-Jas, Mustangs JAS etc) who was also an instructor at 57 OTU. On it was pasted the photo which started this thread (probably the original source?) with the following handwritten below. ”My yellow nosed Spitfire, the only one of its kind, used to frighten pupils. It looked exceptionally smart and the girlfriends never failed to recognise it". CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Fair enough then. Primary first-hand witness evidence, not based on a fleeting glimpse but on the witness's proper knowledge of the individual aeroplane. Can't be beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Slam dunk Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZ6 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 That's interesting. I wanted to build this aircraft and was going to go with white. Looks like I'll be painting it yellow after all. It looks like it could be a lighter shade of yellow than the roundel though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 That's interesting. I wanted to build this aircraft and was going to go with white. Looks like I'll be painting it yellow after all. It looks like it could be a lighter shade of yellow than the roundel though. I had the same thought. Problem only is why the other one (AR213) was pained white albeit with red and blue stripes added ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoyTech Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Problem only is why the other one (AR213) was pained white albeit with red and blue stripes added ... ”…the girlfriends never failed to recognise it". Surely they dated different girlfriends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I had the same thought. Problem only is why the other one (AR213) was pained white albeit with red and blue stripes added ... I don't think it's really a problem. The whole point of the exercise was to mark up aircraft that were distictively different from the conventionally finished machines the student pilots were flying, and to make them easily identifiable as "the enemy". I'm not sure the intention was to make them identical to Luftwafe fighters, just noticibly different from standard RAF ones. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hi interesting thread, pretty much proof that even with a photo it is very hard to decide on how the aircraft was painted. what is needed is a computer app that converts b/w to colour ? one though could the ' lighter shade ' of yellow, just be fresh paint on a dirty/faded aircraft ? cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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