johnd Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Hi, I'm building a Spitfire LF Mk Vb, EP688, used by 40 Sqn for photo reconnaissance. The only photo I know of is here. It shows the camera port covered over. Does anyone know what was used to cover it? Whatever it is, it seems to be a decent match for the dark earth on the camouflage. Thanks, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Quite possibly the same self-adhesive material, as used over the gun muzzles; as it can be seen, elsewhere, blue & white, as well as red, it could, if thought necessary, easily have been painted dark earth, as well, Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Hmm, there's a thought. The red-brown dope might add some interest to the model. The colour doesn't look to dissimilar to the spinner which I believe to be red... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOAN Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 John, Some infos here : http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1235381897/1235585923/40+Sqn+SAAF+Spitfires+Mk+Vb+-+PR+cameras cheers Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kiker Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Hi all, A mate of mine who really knows his stuff has told me more than once that the red spinners we see on allied a/c in the Med were generally NOT painted in "red;" rather, they used dull or roundel red. Color pictures I've seen of these 40 Sgn a/c, while taken with a grain of salt, do not show a bright spinner, but they are much more in line with dull red to my eye. As for the camera this a/c carried, I have seen the port covered over with both dull red and camouflage color on different models. It seems to me though that a camera lens behind a clear side oblique port would be more reflective to the type of missions the airplane flew. Of course, I like doing recce birds anyway, but it would be another perspective showing the plane's history. Cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Thanks folks, I think I'll go with dull red for the camera patch and blue for the gun patches. Regarding the spinner, interestingly the illustration in "Spitfire - The History", shows it dull red and those on colour pictures of 40 squadron contemporaries don't look very bright so I'll tone that down too. Also, I've spotted a later picture of the aircraft when it was in Italy and it is sporting a white 'R' on the cowling under the engine. I can't see this feature on any of the 40 squadron pictures in Malta so I'll probably leave it off, assuming it appeared at he same time as 'Babs' on the port side. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Pure conjecture I know, but consider what these guys would have to hand. There they are, overseas, operating on the front line. They suffer damage to the 'glass' cover of the camera. What are they doing to do, to retain the A/C as fit for flight until they receive a replacement cover? The simply patch the aperture, using the same material that is used to patch over the gun muzzles - and finish with the basic, red, dope! I rest my case. Cheers, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Hi all, A mate of mine who really knows his stuff has told me more than once that the red spinners we see on allied a/c in the Med were generally NOT painted in "red;" rather, they used dull or roundel red. Color pictures I've seen of these 40 Sgn a/c, while taken with a grain of salt, do not show a bright spinner, but they are much more in line with dull red to my eye. Cheers, Jim HI Many years ago on an airfix magazine had a colour spitfire photo on the cover the roundel red was shown as an 'orangey' red, this was explained in a letter in the later issue by an eyewitness, as the colour paint SAAF aircraft used on the roundels. they did not use raf roundel red. cheers Jerry P.S. to prove 'the old grey matter' still works ... found this.. link to info http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=55065&p=60 http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/member_albums/49076/dsc05487.jpg quote This photo also shows the colours of these SAAF Spits to good advantage: The bright red spinner, A SAAF theatre marking, and all the roundel centres and fin flash red overpainted in orange, yes, the South Africans were the only Dominion pilots to fly aircraft with their own coutries' markings! This is what I'm trying to copy as all the SAAF Squadrons did this... In fact, many South African pilots who served in British Squadrons (and there were quite a few in 112 Squadron RAF for instance), had the orange painted over the red, wonder what the CO's said? Or even noticed? The Spit I've completed has the same markings, but applied post-war in South Africa... Also note the red and white Squadron codes on the 40 Squadron machine, the SAAF nearly always used white, not light grey, for their code letters... Edited March 22, 2014 by brewerjerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 quote In fact, many South African pilots who served in British Squadrons (and there were quite a few in 112 Squadron RAF for instance), had the orange painted over the red, wonder what the CO's said? Or even noticed? Probably just chewed out the erks for not properly stirring the paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Thanks for the links and observations, I'm aware of the orange in the roundels and flashes and courtesy of Col. have a set ready to go on. I may have to rethink the spinner colour though... John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Same photo (believe it or not,) and the top one is in a book by Douglas Bader; only the background blue cast really gives it away as a mistake (there are other photos of green/sand Hurricanes in the book, too.) The simply patch the aperture, using the same material that is used to patch over the gun muzzles - and finish with the basic, red, dope!Actually, no, the patches were self-adhesive, usually pre-coloured, and were covered by clear dope. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Wait a minute- I've seen this comparison before, but would the aircraft letters really have changed from blue (?) to red just by adjusting the colour balance? Why aren't the blue gun-port patches affected? Or, loosely speaking, the roundels? Or am I making a false assumption that this has been blamed (before) on simple "photo reproduction"? I'm beginning to think someone had a more direct hand in the radical shift- and I don't mean you, Edgar! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't think the code letters have changed from blue to red, but from a darker red - clearer on the Mid Stone than when surrounded by "green". You'd need to do a pixel by pixel check, but I think the "blue" in the letters is just the eye being fooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOAN Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I am afraid both "prints" were retouched and prepared for publication here. The reddish / magenta's tail is sharpened...no more grainy effect. I suspect these publication prints are coming from te 70's and the 80's before numeric balance. ( I remenber the E2°S mustang and the "blue" olive drab...) Only the original negative can say the truth. ( I saw original silver prints hardly outlined and airbrushed ) Is it a Charles E.Brown Kodachrome ? can't remenber but he used 35mm Zeiss contax since 1935. Letters to me appear here black with white outline.... cheers olivier Edited March 23, 2014 by JOAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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