Monogram P-36 Which version does it represent

[Wez]

Hi folks,

I recently discovered a Monogram 1/72nd scale P-36, it's with instructions but without box or decals.

I don't know much about the type so I was wondering which version it best represented or is it a horrible mish-mash of sub-types and doesn't really represent any one version, I quite like the idea of doing a French one.

Wez

[KRK4m]

Basically USAAC (P-36A and P-36C) and EARLY French (H.75A-1, A-2 and A-3) variants are closely related. The engine and its cowling are the same, so are the fuselage guns. Concerning the wing guns the P-36A and H.75A-1 had nothing, the P-36C and H.75A-2 had one per wing, while only the H.75A-3 (and some later Cyclone-engined variants) had two rifle-calibre MGs per wing (like last P-40 Tomahawks). Using Monogram kit (the best on the market until the advent of Czech AML) you can easily do any French or US variant as long as it is R-1830 Twin Wasp powered (the P-36G and H.75A-4 used 9-cylinder Wright R-1820).

Edited May 22, 2013 by KRK4m

[Navy Bird]

Starfighter Decals makes a really nice resin cockpit and wheel well set for the Monogram P-36 kit, as well as a couple of decal sheets with different markings. The resin set is really needed as the Monogram kit, although great for its time, doesn't have any good detail in those areas.

Cheers,

Bill

[Wez]

Thanks KRK4m for the advice, the good news is I can make a French one, the difficult part is finding the right markings for the variant - great!

Bill, I've seen the Starfighter set and decals, I shall be getting the resin but their decal sheets are for US Army versions and I really wanted to do a French aircraft - have you seen those totally random colour schemes?

Thanks both for your help.

Now the next question is, how does H-75A1/2/3 relate to H75-C1 as seen on French serial blocks - see this link for an example of what I mean http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BER72063

Wez

Edited May 21, 2013 by Wez

[Nick Millman]

In H75-C1 the C1 designation is for 'Chasseur monoplace' - single seat fighter - and was a standard marking throughout the French H75 series. It is not related to the serial number which appears underneath it and was sequential throughout the series.

On the Berna decal sheet Nos.78 and 85 were H75-A1 whilst No.115 was H75-A2.

Armament on the French machines was not as described by KRK4m above. French serials 1 to 140 had single wing guns whilst 141 onwards had two guns in each wing.

Nick

[Marcel]

Hi Wez, PM me your postal address, I think I have some AML leftover decals for the French machines.

[Fernando]

Hi, all,

Watch the engine. I seem to remember that it comes with a single row radial.

Fernando

[Wez]

In H75-C1 the C1 designation is for 'Chasseur monoplace' - single seat fighter - and was a standard marking throughout the French H75 series. It is not related to the serial number which appears underneath it and was sequential throughout the series.

On the Berna decal sheet Nos.78 and 85 were H75-A1 whilst No.115 was H75-A2.

Armament on the French machines was not as described by KRK4m above. French serials 1 to 140 had single wing guns whilst 141 onwards had two guns in each wing.

Nick

Nick,

Thanks for that explanation, I can see I'm going to have to do a bit of research on these aircraft.

Hi, all,

Watch the engine. I seem to remember that it comes with a single row radial.

Fernando

As long as the cowling is of the correct chord for a French machine I can get around that little problem (assuming the cowling diameter was the same)?

Hi Wez, PM me your postal address, I think I have some AML leftover decals for the French machines.

Marcel, thats very kind of you, PM on its way!

Thanks to all.

Regards

Wez

[KRK4m]

Hi, all,

Watch the engine. I seem to remember that it comes with a single row radial.

Fernando

This is NOT the case with Monogram kit - Heller/Smer one really HAS a 9-cylinder single-row radial buried inside the 14-cylinder cowling. Monogram and Revell (quite different one to another) have proper 7-cylinder twin stars, even if one of them (I don't remember which, as I have built both these kits some 40 years ago) has these two rows moulded as the single item.

[KRK4m]

As long as the cowling is of the correct chord for a French machine I can get around that little problem (assuming the cowling diameter was the same)?

Regards

Wez

The overall length is almost the same and so is the cowling height when looking at the side profile. The chord is quite different but the biggest difference is when viewed from above - the 9-cylinder Cyclone is much wider than a small-diameter Twin Wasp. The key is not so simple as the US, RAF, Finland, Germany, France and Norway used both variants. In case of the Dutch, SAAF, Chinese, Portuguese, Iranian and Peruvian aircraft only the 9-cylinder is possible, while Brazil have used only the 14-cylinder variant.

Edited May 21, 2013 by KRK4m

[Test Graham]

Although the French received some Cyclone-engined variants, I don't think they reached the front-line. At least not in significant numbers, and were sold on by the Germans whilst the P&W-engined aircraft were retained in Vichy service. I did my Monogram one as a Vichy machine, so yes it can be done. The main problem I recall was with the fit of the windscreen.

The Heller kit is definitely the poorest of the "old 3" P-36 kits, with there being some doubt just what the cowling was supposed to represent. Since then there have been other P-36 kits, but if you've got a Monogram one, no problem.

[Navy Bird]

This is NOT the case with Monogram kit - Heller/Smer one really HAS a 9-cylinder single-row radial buried inside the 14-cylinder cowling. Monogram and Revell (quite different one to another) have proper 7-cylinder twin stars, even if one of them (I don't remember which, as I have built both these kits some 40 years ago) has these two rows moulded as the single item.

You are correct. I checked the Monogram P-36 in my stash, and it has both rows of cylinders moulded as one piece. Proper 7 cylinders per row, I counted them!

Cheers,

Bill

[MDriskill]

I fully agree the Monogram P-36 is the best of the older generation kits, but it is not perfect. In particular the fuselage is too narrow. This superlative build by accomplished Japanese modeler Jumpei Temma very well illustrates one approach to improving it.

http://www.geocities.jp/yoyuso/p36/p36.html

Edited May 23, 2013 by MDriskill

[Nick Millman]

Although the French received some Cyclone-engined variants, I don't think they reached the front-line. At least not in significant numbers, and were sold on by the Germans whilst the P&W-engined aircraft were retained in Vichy service. I did my Monogram one as a Vichy machine, so yes it can be done. The main problem I recall was with the fit of the windscreen.

A total of 97 H-75A4 received French Air Force serials with the new series designation H-751 from No.1 to No.97. Most went to North Africa to storage or flying schools but the following were captured in France by the Germans:- 11, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. 22, 23, 24, 30, 47 and 49. Some of these were sent on to Finland.

Best reference on the H-75 in French service is undoubtedly Lionel Persyn's 442 page tome published by Lela Presse in 2008.

Nick

[Fernando]

You are correct. I checked the Monogram P-36 in my stash, and it has both rows of cylinders moulded as one piece. Proper 7 cylinders per row, I counted them!

Cheers,

Bill

Ajap.That's what made me think it was a single row!

Fernando