D Day unit help and Firefly Help 2 part question. From a New guy..

[Thundergrunt]

Greeting all

I know this is probably a long shot, but I dont know if my research skills are up to speed as some of you, I am having a hard time locating a photo I saw of a 13/18th Hussars Firefly VC #58. I think it was named "Bell", "Beth", "Bett" or somthing like that.
I know C squadron has been pretty much laid out in decals and photos. Now I am looking for info on that FF as well as the layout and numbering of 13/18 A sq, B sd I think they were 3tnks/5trps, I have also seen #48 I think was Borgia,Borgis I think it read. As well as their Firefly's or the 2 that were used as Concrete Busters

Any help on the FF names of some of the Asq Bsq Tanks. PS. I think I read the caption was "Brigieville" or "Bourgiville" on the first of second day,

second question is of similar nature but for the East Riding Yeomanry, how their C squadron was numbered, I do know they were 4tnk/4trop alignment. But trying to see how the FF's fit in I think they were numbered for the 2nd tank in the troop but single digit. So I was looking for any corrects to that or any info of the Firefly's in C Squadron would be Awsome. Thank you in Advance.

Sorry again, but I am new to armor, but read a little about the units and their fighting there in Normandy and it peaked my intrest, .

EUge

Edited May 11, 2013 by Thundergrunt

[Centaur95]

The Squadron structure in 13/18 Hussars was flexible during June and July 44.

A and B Sqns had very few Fireflies for most of June. You mentioned the 'Concrete buster' Fireflies - as soon as they landed on the beaches, one joined A Sqn and the other joined B Sqn - those were only ones directly assigned to either Sqn through June. In practice they borrowed one or two of the C Sqn Fireflies to beef up their ranks at various times but these were never officially assigned.

No. 1 Troop from C Sqn was assigned as the 'Protection Troop' for Montgomery's HQ for most of June. Their Firefly ('67') was therefore loaned out to the other Sqns (mostly A Sqn I think).

Gradually, through June, A and B Sqns handed in their Sherman V DDs and were issued with standard Sherman IIIs but few if any extra Firelfies. In total, 13/18 Hussars probably only had 6-8 Fireflies for most of June 44 (the allocation officially being 12 at this time).

It's worth pointing out that most regiments did not see any Fireflies until April 44, when they were first issued - and there were never enough to satisfy demand.

Photos of B Sqn tanks 'Borgia', 'Boleyn' and 'Boadicea' (all Sherman V 75mm gun tanks) are something of a red herring - they date from a period prior to the Regt being issued with DD tanks (mid-late 1943) and were almost certainly issued to them to allow them to train on Shermans (remember, right up to April/May 44, their DD Tanks were Valentines). It's possible that the names were re-used on DDs and later vehicles in NW Europe.

I don't know of 13/18 Hussar Firefly numbered '58' but two things might be relevant. Firstly, the regiment fought through the NW Europe Campaign so after the Normandy battles, it is not unlikely that a Firefly with this number existed in the regiment. Secondly, unless you can definitely see the unit markings and confirm a tank belongs to a particular unit, don't believe photo captions as they are often incorrect (even 'official' ones).

ERY isn't my area but you mention 'single digit' Fireflies. That makes sense as ERY numbered their A Sqn starting with '1' - the Fireflies were incorporated into the Troop numbering system and were not numbered separately

A Sqn:

1 Troop

1 - Sherman 75 (Troop Leader)

2 - Sherman Vc (probably belonging to the Troop Sgt)

3 - Sherman 75

4 - Sherman 75

2 Troop

5 - Sherman 75 (Troop Leader)

6 - Sherman Vc (probably belonging to the Troop Sgt)

7 - Sherman 75

8 - Sherman 75

3 Troop

9 - Sherman 75 (Troop Leader)

10 - Sherman Vc (probably belonging to the Troop Sgt)

11 - Sherman 75

12 - Sherman 75

4 Troop

13 - Sherman 75 (Troop Leader)

14 - Sherman Vc (probably belonging to the Troop Sgt)

15 - Sherman 75

16 - Sherman 75

SHQ Troop

17 - Sherman 75

18 - Sherman 75

19 - Sherman 75

20 - Sherman 75

One or more of the SHQ Troop would have been Sherman OP or Command tanks with dummy guns

I don't know what number B Sqn started with (or C Sqn) but whatever number they started with, the pattern would follow that of A Sqn.

'55' was definitely an ERY Firefly (with a number that high it must be C Sqn) but which Troop it was in I don't know.

Also, the following census numbers belonged to Vc of ERY, but with no photo and no other details, I can't say which Sqns or Troops they belonged to -

T-212738

T-228718

Hope that helps,

Centaur

Edited May 11, 2013 by Centaur95

[Thundergrunt]

Centaur

Thanks for that, I think I will do #75 of 13/18 I wish I had a namw ,so it is not he same tanks you always see ya know, And I swear #58 was a FF VC named Beth I did read somwhere also, I got to do more book marks, that 58 was a Mk V DD then got a FF and gave the DD to another crew soon after the landings so they could get another tank up. also it was with a Tank named Blight or Blighty when the got up on the road. I am not sure but It was from a B troop tanker that was a part of his diary or something said they lost # 50 and #52 on the beach.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Thundergrunt