Procopius Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 What are the differences between the F2A and F6? A facebook inquiry to Airfix had them indicating the new Lightning coming out this November would be an F2A only boxing; what are probable changes I'd need to do to get an F.6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The pre-production one that Airfix had on display at Cosford was built as an F2A and an F6 - one side was F2A the other F6. Seems daft if they release them as separate boxing. Basic differences are: - F2A short cable ducts, F6 long cable ducts. F2A guns in upper or lower nose, F6 guns in forward ventral tank. F6's could also be seen without guns in the forward ventral tank, so that is not an essential mod. Cockpit is also different but you'd probably not notice building straight from the box. Firestreak or Red Top missiles are applicable to either mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The pre-production one that Airfix had on display at Cosford was built as an F2A and an F6 - one side was F2A the other F6. Seems daft if they release them as separate boxing. Basic differences are: - F2A short cable ducts, F6 long cable ducts. F2A guns in upper or lower nose, F6 guns in forward ventral tank. F6's could also be seen without guns in the forward ventral tank, so that is not an essential mod. Cockpit is also different but you'd probably not notice building straight from the box. Firestreak or Red Top missiles are applicable to either mark. It might seem daft to us but it is clever marketing by Airfix. How many of us will buy the F2a to convert into an F6 as they haven't officially announced an F6? They know the F6 will be more popular so will not release that first as F2a sales would suffer. Eduard did the same thing with their Bf110's, released the E first knowing the C/D and G's would be the biggest sellers. Duncan B (willing to convert the F2a then buy the F 6 when it arrives!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The pre-production one that Airfix had on display at Cosford was built as an F2A and an F6 - one side was F2A the other F6. Seems daft if they release them as separate boxing. Basic differences are: - F2A short cable ducts, F6 long cable ducts. F2A guns in upper or lower nose, F6 guns in forward ventral tank. F6's could also be seen without guns in the forward ventral tank, so that is not an essential mod. Cockpit is also different but you'd probably not notice building straight from the box. Firestreak or Red Top missiles are applicable to either mark. Are you sure on this last Scarlet, I thought the F2A could only use the Firestreak? Can't ever recall seeing an F2A with Red Top's. Happy to be proved wrong. Now the F6 on the other hand could be seen with either. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Unless they plan to do something radical with the sprues, the F.Mk.6 ought to be in the box whatever the decal options provide. After all, the two were in the same box originally, and there were no odd Hasegawa-style mini-sprues kicking around. To make an F.Mk.6 you should need do little more than blag a scan of the old instructions and buy some of the many aftermarket decals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Unless they plan to do something radical with the sprues, the F.Mk.6 ought to be in the box whatever the decal options provide. After all, the two were in the same box originally, and there were no odd Hasegawa-style mini-sprues kicking around. To make an F.Mk.6 you should need do little more than blag a scan of the old instructions and buy some of the many aftermarket decals. Sean, I think wires are getting crossed here, think the others were referring to the upcoming 1/72 Lightning and I'm guessing you're referring to the 1/48 kit? Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Sean, I think wires are getting crossed here, think the others were referring to the upcoming 1/72 Lightning and I'm guessing you're referring to the 1/48 kit? Mark. You may be right. On the other hand, it would make sense to set up a new 1/72 kit the same way ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Sean, I think wires are getting crossed here, think the others were referring to the upcoming 1/72 Lightning and I'm guessing you're referring to the 1/48 kit? Mark. Sorry, I took it for granted we were talking 1/72 kit here. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs2man Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Are you sure on this last Scarlet, I thought the F2A could only use the Firestreak? Can't ever recall seeing an F2A with Red Top's. Happy to be proved wrong. Now the F6 on the other hand could be seen with either. Wez Wez is quite correct . The F2A had AI23 radar and so could only use Firestreak , whilst the F6 had AI23B , which had capability to operate both . The uprated radar is apparently why the F3 and F6 had no nose guns , since some of the extra equipment occupied the space taken by the cannon blast tubes in the F1 and F2 variants . It was also the reason for the longer cable ducts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The belly tanks are different shape, especially in the front, between the F.2A and the F.6. The F.6 tank is larger in the front to accommodate the gun package. In the new kit, if it only has the F.2A tank, you can't just drill some holes in it to represent the F.6 guns. You'd have to reshape the front of the tank. If the pre-production kit at Cosford was built F.2A on one side and F.6 on the other, were the tanks the same shape? I hope not! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Oho, the plot thickens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It's a subtle difference, visible mostly from the side. The F.6 tank also has two blisters (one on each side) that are related to the cannon pack. In the Airfix 1:48 kit, and the Trumpeter kits, the front part of the belly tank is moulded separately from the fuselage halves. This allows you to use whichever front half you need for the mark you're building. It would be nice if the new Airfix 1:72 kit did the same thing! Any Lightning experts out there please chime in if I'm askew in my observations! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The belly tanks are different shape, especially in the front, between the F.2A and the F.6. The F.6 tank is larger in the front to accommodate the gun package. In the new kit, if it only has the F.2A tank, you can't just drill some holes in it to represent the F.6 guns. You'd have to reshape the front of the tank. If the pre-production kit at Cosford was built F.2A on one side and F.6 on the other, were the tanks the same shape? I hope not! Cheers, Bill Bill (Navy Bird) is quite correct, the forward ventral gun-tank, to give it its correct name, was fatter than the forward ventral fuel tank on the F6 (and on the F53's). Further, the gun tank was flat on its leading edge whereas the fuel tank was rounded. There was also some four inches difference in position, fore and aft, between the left gun and the right gun, which affected the position of the blistered panels but did not affect the position of the gun ports. For the new 72tooth kit to correctly represent both F2A and F6 in the same box, or as correct as will be acceptable on this esteemed Forum - which is going some, the good old boys at Airfix will need to provide two separate forward tanks which is why i think that young Duncan B is spot on:- It might seem daft to us but it is clever marketing by Airfix. How many of us will buy the F2a to convert into an F6 as they haven't officially announced an F6? They know the F6 will be more popular so will not release that first as F2a sales would suffer. Eduard did the same thing with their Bf110's, released the E first knowing the C/D and G's would be the biggest sellers. Duncan B (willing to convert the F2a then buy the F 6 when it arrives!) DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Also not mentioned....the F6 could carry overwing ferry tanks, whereas the F2A couldn't. As stated earlier, early F6's, and F3A's/interim F6's were issued minus the cannon pack, so I'd assume that the fuel tank portion of the belly at the front would be the same as used on the F2A? Also there are some instances where some Lightnings in the late-80's, towards run-down and particulary with the LTF flew without the cannon pack.... And yes, it would make sense if Airfix broke the kit down in a similar way to their 1/48th kit, I think its already been discussed on here, BUT anyway at the rate I build nowadays the four F2a Schemes I have in mind (1 each of 19 & 92 Sqns in Green.NM and 1 each in NM) will keep me busy enough until the F6 is issued!! And yes the F2A is a great choice for starters........easier to back date to an F2/F1a/F1., with a little help from an old Airfix F1a/F3 belly tank !!! (The F3 will have to wait until the F6 is issued!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) I think XP693 kept the original belly tank, and IIRC the F6s that were passed to BAE for Tornado F3 trials had them re-fitted as well (XS904 for example, which still has it fitted)http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1135519Photos show she had the gun pack whilst in service Edited May 2, 2013 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 And yes the F2A is a great choice for starters........easier to back date to an F2/F1a/F1., with a little help from an old Airfix F1a/F3 belly tank !!! (The F3 will have to wait until the F6 is issued!!) Wouldn't you also have to change the wings? The F.2A had the same "kinky" wings as the F.6, but I wasn't aware that the F2/F1A/F1 did at any time. Also, wWhich mark had the rounded tip on the vertical tail? And speaking of kinky wings, I really hope that Airfix get this right on the new kit. They did on the quarter scale kit, so hopefully they can scale it down! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Wouldn't you also have to change the wings? The F.2A had the same "kinky" wings as the F.6, but I wasn't aware that the F2/F1A/F1 did at any time. Also, wWhich mark had the rounded tip on the vertical tail? And speaking of kinky wings, I really hope that Airfix get this right on the new kit. They did on the quarter scale kit, so hopefully they can scale it down! Cheers, Bill Easy peasy...used to be a standard job when converting Matchbox's F2a/F6 .....just straighten them from the front and re-profile the ailerons...you'll also need a bit of surgery on the fin as well of course.... The kinked wing on the 1/48th scale Lightning only really works if you build the extension onto the lower wing first. I've seen a few models spoilt over the last couple of decades by modellers not looking at the shape and droop of the real thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 just straighten them from the front and re-profile the aileronsOnly that? Wasn't one other effect of the extension that the ailerons no longer reached the wingtip?Which mark had the rounded tip on the vertical tail?The F.Mk.2A, F.Mk.3, T.Mk.5 and F.Mk.6 had the square-tipped fin; the rest had the round-tipped one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Easy peasy...used to be a standard job when converting Matchbox's F2a/F6 .....just straighten them from the front and re-profile the ailerons...you'll also need a bit of surgery on the fin as well of course.... The kinked wing on the 1/48th scale Lightning only really works if you build the extension onto the lower wing first. I've seen a few models spoilt over the last couple of decades by modellers not looking at the shape and droop of the real thing... OK, but I have the Matchbox kit and its wings are not correctly kinked. I suspect it may be a bit more difficult to modify a correctly kinked F6 style wing. But I agree with you, it can be done. Hey, with plastic and Milliput you can fix just about anything! Was the belly tank the same on the F1/F2? The F3 tank was larger I think, but not as large as the F6/F2A. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Are you sure on this last Scarlet, I thought the F2A could only use the Firestreak? Can't ever recall seeing an F2A with Red Top's. Happy to be proved wrong. Apologies, typo alert! Teach me for not reading my post. It would be better if all the words I thought I'd typed were present. What should have appeared: - Firestreak applicable to either mark, Red Top F6 only. And me ex Lightning groundcrew - oh gawd! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 OK, but I have the Matchbox kit and its wings are not correctly kinked. I suspect it may be a bit more difficult to modify a correctly kinked F6 style wing. But I agree with you, it can be done. Hey, with plastic and Milliput you can fix just about anything! Was the belly tank the same on the F1/F2? The F3 tank was larger I think, but not as large as the F6/F2A. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Cheers, Bill The kink on the later wing was simply an extension to the original straight wing, so in theory it shouldn't be too hard to alter. Once you remove the extended part the wing should straighten. The small tanks were the same size on all small tanked versions - as per Airfix's 1/48th kit for example..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The pre-production one that Airfix had on display at Cosford was built as an F2A and an F6 - one side was F2A the other F6. Seems daft if they release them as separate boxing. Basic differences are: - F2A short cable ducts, F6 long cable ducts. F2A guns in upper or lower nose, F6 guns in forward ventral tank. F6's could also be seen without guns in the forward ventral tank, so that is not an essential mod. Cockpit is also different but you'd probably not notice building straight from the box. Firestreak or Red Top missiles are applicable to either mark. The F2a couldnot carry Red Top thats why the cable ducting was short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Kinky wing :- !! Stop it !! All of you !! DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The F2a couldnot carry Red Top thats why the cable ducting was short. Missed my second post then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Wez is quite correct . The F2A had AI23 radar and so could only use Firestreak , whilst the F6 had AI23B , which had capability to operate both . The uprated radar is apparently why the F3 and F6 had no nose guns , since some of the extra equipment occupied the space taken by the cannon blast tubes in the F1 and F2 variants . It was also the reason for the longer cable ducts . The F2A had the provision to carry 4 guns or two guns and a missile pack. As you correctly say, on the F6 the area where the upper guns were housed on the F2A is occupied by extra equipment, so no room for guns. The 1964 design study presented to BAC by the RAF for secondary armament for the F3A(F6) required missiles and guns to be carried at the same time. This prevented the use of the gun pack (as used by the F2A) as the missile pack had to be removed to fit it. The ventral gun pack was settled on to preserve aerodynamic characteristics and provide a firm platform to absorb gun recoil and to eliminate airframe flexing. The first live firing of the gun pack by an in service Lightning was October 1970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now