Speed GB

[Bengalensis]

OK, I'll admit, I'm a speed freak, sort of... so I have for some time been toying with the idea of a Speed GB, with its foundation in speed as in km/h, mph, knots, mach etc. Speed.

I also like the idea of a GB that would have potential appeal for all sorts of subjects to join in, making modellers of very different genres come together and share some building time. Speed I think would allow that.

Anything would fit; cars, boats, planes, bikes, helicopters, locomotives, spaceships (even sci-fi), tanks, rockets, you name it, as long as (higher) speed was a (the) major driving force, or something we all know and remember it for. Speed. I would like to see everything in such a Speed GB that was somehow built or used (or dreamt up?) with higher speeds in mind. New speed records, even higher speed than before, to be the fastest... be it a success or a failure.

It can of course be (or tried to be) the fastest in "its class", like a 250 cc bike is fastest in its class, although there are faster bikes, if you see what I mean. Or something that just happened to be the fastest of it's kind at some time. Perhaps even Sgt. Jones fighter that was always the fastest plane in the division, because he and his ground crew where speed freaks and kept everything tip top for speed, always able to open up the throttles beyond the rules and the limitations?

I'm thinking speed as in outright speed. Not the fastest lap around a circuit, or the fastest crossing of the Atlantic, which may not necessarily be the fastest in top speed. I might be convinced to change my mind on this though.

Speed. What do you think? Would a Speed GB be anything of interest?

[CarLos]

This is one of my subjects. I am interested, and I have a lot of kits to choose from.

Carlos

[CliffB]

I'm thinking speed as in outright speed. Not the fastest lap around a circuit, or the fastest crossing of the Atlantic, which may not necessarily be the fastest in top speed. I might be convinced to change my mind on this though.

Can I convince you to change your mind Jorgen?! The only thing in my stash that is suitable is a Supermarine S6.B - certainly built for speed and was the fastest on the day, but not sure if it had the highest outright speed of its contemporaries?

Sounds like a great idea for a GB though.

Cliff

[Bengalensis]

Can I convince you to change your mind Jorgen?! The only thing in my stash that is suitable is a Supermarine S6.B - certainly built for speed and was the fastest on the day, but not sure if it had the highest outright speed of its contemporaries?

Sounds like a great idea for a GB though.

Cliff

Oh, such a thing is most definitely in, no question at all. That's exactly one of so many type of subjects I'm thinking of.

I do realise that it is easier to judge almost any racing airplane as "built for outright speed", rather than just any sort of race car for example, but an S6.B is perfect in my book!

I also believe to rather welcome people in, rather than keeping someone out, as long as a good motivation of speed is present.

[Doug Rogers]

I'd be interested in this one, no clue what I'd do for it. Maybe an F-15 'Streak Eagle' as I haven't got involved in the F-15 GB and wanted to.

[Paul J]

I'd be interested. Still have some High Planes RENO racers I'd like to build......RAre Bear, Furias, Red baron and so on.

[llking]

I'm for it

[triumphfan]

I would be up for this. Would probably get me KUTA to pull my vacform Bluebird K7 out of the loft and build it.

The criteria would have to be carefully thought out, I feel.

Steve.

[heloman1]

Hi Jorgen, Sounds like a great idea and as you say brings all genres of modelling together. I could be interested in this one depending on the time frame.

Colin

[Bengalensis]

Good to see there is some interest in the theme of Speed.

I would be up for this. Would probably get me KUTA to pull my vacform Bluebird K7 out of the loft and build it.

The criteria would have to be carefully thought out, I feel.

Steve.

Lovely choice the K7, tragic ending though, sadly an ever present shadow when high speed is the goal, but a fantastic creation it was. I have been tempted by the 1/24 vac kit and will have to get one.

You're absolutely right, the criteria needs careful defining, and I welcome a discussion about it to guide it right. I tried to put my thoughts and ideas into words in my first post, but it isn't easy.

My initial idea when I started thinking about a Speed GB, some time ago, was speed record machines, anything built for speed records. However, I quickly came to the conclusion that it might be a bit too narrow minded. So I thought it could be opened up a bit, while still maintaining Speed as the theme. Take the S6B or the Reno racers, they aren't built for outright speed records, but they are certainly speed machines enough for a Speed GB.

I think a Speed GB should be about "creations" built or modified with speed as the dominant criteria, or specific individual vehicles (be it land, air, water etc.) that somehow made a stamp in the "universal book of speed" for some reason. I know I have difficulties putting my thoughts into perfectly understandable words...

For example this IMO means that although any F1 car is a very fast car, capable of very high speeds (for a car), it is not a "speed machine" in outright terms, it is much more of a compromise, still able to reach high speeds. I don't think a random F1 car should be eligible in this GB just because it's fast in relative terms, but a specific F1 car may still be eligible if it was prepared or known for its speed, compared to other F1 cars. The same goes for something like a super sonic jet fighter etc.etc.

No, I'm not drunk (yet) , I'm just trying to put my thoughts into words. The criteria does need to be discussed and refined.

[Jessica]

So what would you say to a YF-12?

[Bengalensis]

So what would you say to a YF-12?

IMO well qualified as a "speed machine".

I'll admit that "modern" jet aircraft is not what I know best though.

[triumphfan]

Not sure I fully understand the thinking about race cars/bikes as they are clearly built to go faster than the 'competition' and it is no different to a land or water speed record attempt or a Reno racer.

Probably the main difference could be the style of racing such as against the clock but then that would not rule out Rally cars.

Personally, I think your original thought of record breaking machines would still find a lot of different genres. I have a Gloster Meteor record breaker in my collection, Yellow Peril, built from the CA and Tamiya kits.

Speed GB could work out to be broadly encompassing and this would bring a lot of interest and entries imo.

Steve.

[triumphfan]

I think I partly understand your point of view on a particular race car being known for speed. Examples being the Turbo era (mental) or the 'Silver Arrows' Mercs and Auto Unions of the late 1930's, they were miles ahead of the competition at that time.

Would be difficult to write that in to the GB rules though and many entries could be questioned and may have to be validated.

Steve.

[Bengalensis]

Yes, a definition that is easy to understand in short written GB rules needs to be come up with, if a good Speed GB would be a reality. I know I am tossing around a bit of loose ideas here at this early stage.

Maybe you are right and "having at some point held a speed record" or "having been built to try to break a speed record" would be wide enough, as my initial idea. "Having been the fastest in this event/race/happening" may be a third criteria? My thinking though was that there are more "speed machines" that would be nice to welcome in, without watering down the speed theme.

In my own mind the random F1 car (or even more so the random rally car) is not that much about outright speed (in km/h or mph) as for example a Schneider trophy or a Reno racer (or the YF-12) is, even though they are driven hard to be faster than the opposition, but around a rather twisting circuit (or over twisting stages) with a lot of other things, even things like strategy, playing in as well so outright speed is to a larger degree sacrificed for the total result. I know this thinking and comparison of mine may not be perfectly logical...

Or we keep things less tight, and let participants join in with things that are fast and represent Speed to them, including say random F1 and rally cars, if someone want to build that.

In the end though I absolutely agree that it has to boil down to some quite clear cut GB rules. It shall not be a pair of hosts having to rule every participant in or out, depending on the "personal preference of the day".

[Jessica]

What about the fastest man-made object ever?

[Bengalensis]

Actually things like this, and there are many space examples, or even sci.fi examples, are what I would like to be able to see as in a Speed GB as well, beside the obvious speed record cars and planes etc, when I tried to think of the Speed theme in a wider perspective.

Again, I understand if my logic may not seem perfectly clear cut to everyone, but as I said I'm tossing around ideas.

[Dazzio]

What about the fastest man-made object ever?

I read a story a while ago that says Voyager I is actually slowing down! I can't remember if it was JPL or come uni in America that said it, but Sky at Night where pretty surprised by it.

I got a 1/144 Space Shuttle, I am pretty sure that counts as fast. Esp when it's coming in (ie falling) home.

Kind Regards,

Dazz

[Bengalensis]

Giving the satellite thing a second thought over night I do think even a looser format Speed GB should be about vehicles that mankind can travel with. I think it should be manned subjects. The thrill of speed is IMO for mankind to experience it and be part of it.

[D1fuN0]

Good Morning Jorgen.

Like the idea, love the idea and completely agree with you about how difficult it might be to judge validity for entries into a GB.

The problem is, someone may build a model of, for example Thrust 2 which broke the land speed record, which would definately qualify, and the next entry might be a Yamaha RZV 500 which was the fastest 2 stroke 500 in 19 whatever....

Putting down clearly definable rules, as to what is valid, i think, would be a nightmare and will probably cause a lot of arguements.

I think a possible solution to the problem, would be to say, what epitimizes speed for you. Would it be a Lamborghini Aventador, or a Suzuki Hayabusa? Maybe it was the Concorde or a Bullet train. That way, there would be no, hard and fast rules (except that it must be a manned vehicle) as to what could be entered, and the chaps can then basically enter whatever they like.

Ill use my thoughts as an example, for me, what epitimizes speed, is a Lamborghini Countach, has done since I was a kid, its not the fastest supercar, but for me, when I think speed, thats what I see.

What do you think?

Thanks

Steve

[Jessica]

Exploring the limits of the concept, for centuries this was as fast as people ever got.

Would he count?

[Bengalensis]

I think a possible solution to the problem, would be to say, what epitimizes speed for you. Would it be a Lamborghini Aventador, or a Suzuki Hayabusa? Maybe it was the Concorde or a Bullet train. That way, there would be no, hard and fast rules (except that it must be a manned vehicle) as to what could be entered, and the chaps can then basically enter whatever they like.

Ill use my thoughts as an example, for me, what epitimizes speed, is a Lamborghini Countach, has done since I was a kid, its not the fastest supercar, but for me, when I think speed, thats what I see.

What do you think?

Steve, the solution you describe is pretty much exactly what I have in mind when I have mentioned "looser format" or "wider perspective" or whatever confusing words I may have scribbled.

As I said earlier my first thought was things built more or less only for speed, like speed record machines or extreme machines where maximum is speed is the dominant driving force behind the creation of the vehicle. But, that is probably just because these machines represent true Speed to me, while the F1 car or a Lamborghini Aventador does not, to me that is. Other people have other ideas of what represent Speed to them, and it could absolutely be a good way to do a Speed GB.

At this stage I don't think I have a clear preference for the more specific "closer" format or the "loose and open" format. There are pro's and con's with both, while the latter may attract more participants which of course is a good thing.

What I do know is that it either has to be a much closer format like:

• Having at some point held a speed record
• Having been built to try to break a speed record
• Having been the fastest in this event/race/happening

Or a much more open format like:

• What is truly epitomizing speed to you

This as we can not have a situation where each entry need to be judged and discussed based on individual preferences. We want a happy and joyful Speed GB, not a discussion about who is right.

[Bengalensis]

Exploring the limits of the concept, for centuries this was as fast as people ever got.

Would he count?

Interesting thought Jessica. Not knowing this specific type of warrior/soldier on his horse, but to me he doesn't seem to be anything more about speed than any other horse riding warrior of his time. He isn't unique riding a horse nor does he look faster than other man/horse combinations of his era. But then again, I don't know the subject.

Actually a rider on a racing horse, or possibly a war time courier (I just believe they needed to be specifically fast?) on his horse in full speed action would have convinced me far more about the speed motivation of the subject.

I don't have a problem that the human is riding an living animal instead of a machine. As long as the animal is well treated and cared for.

If we toy the idea that a Speed GB would be a reality in a "loose and open" format, along the lines "MAD" Steve mentioned, would you enter this model and honestly present it to your fellow Speed GB participants as epitomizing speed to you? If you would do that and tell us what it says to you about speed I wouldn't have a problem, even if it wouldn't say the same to me.

If it was a Speed GB in a more "narrow" format along the lines of my initial idea and "Triumpfan" Steve's thoughts of "record breakers", it would certainly need to be something like a racing horse.

[Smiffy]

So how about the fastest hunk a junk in the galaxy, then?.

[Jessica]

Interesting thought Jessica. Not knowing this specific type of warrior/soldier on his horse, but to me he doesn't seem to be anything more about speed than any other horse riding warrior of his time. He isn't unique riding a horse nor does he look faster than other man/horse combinations of his era. But then again, I don't know the subject.

Actually a rider on a racing horse, or possibly a war time courier (I just believe they needed to be specifically fast?) on his horse in full speed action would have convinced me far more about the speed motivation of the subject.

I just looked for a generic horse rider model picture to float the concept and found him. That wouldn't necessarily be a model I would enter; a racer or dispatch rider would definitely better exemplify speed. I was more exploring the boundaries of the concept than proposing that particular guy

So we could have

or

or

or

or

or

And many others, whatever best exemplifies speed to the modeller concerned, perhaps with the added bonus of being a challenge they wouldn't otherwise attempt.