Fw190D-9 Bombloads

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

I have just aquired the Hasegawa 1/72 Fw190D-9 'Jabo' kit and have aftermarket markings for Rudel's Fw190 but have a few questions to which google searchs have not revealed any answers.

First a general question - could the (and indeed did they) Fw190D's carry SC50 bombs under the wings like the Fw190F?

Secondly I would imagine given the Rudel's unit was a Schlact squadron, would have been tasked with some ground attack missions, can anyone confirm this? If so what sort of bombs would they be using? I would guess either a SC250 or SC500 but like the question above, what about SC50's under the wings as well?

thanks

Mike

Edited April 22, 2013 by Mikemx

[Antoine]

Can't remember to have seen any pics of D-9 with SC under the wings.

However, there are proofs that a few were wired for R4M and WGr. 21cm.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Hi Antoine, I read that too but I bet they didn't use them for ground attack! The kit comes with the sprue from the standard F-8 kit with a SC250 and 4 SC50's, if they don't get used on the D-9, then I will have another use for them!

thanks

Mike

[FalkeEins]

Hi Mike

..as Antoine says - and there are some nice pics of a JG 301 Dora bombed-up (belly rack), rocket-toting JG 26 Dora and profile of the machine flown by Rudel in SAM Vol 27/12 (Feb 2006)

IIRC according to Rudel's own account he only the flew the D-9 once..- the pic is in Holger Nauroth's German-language history of SG 2.

Edited April 22, 2013 by FalkeEins

[Antoine]

The name of the variant with ETC 50 underwing racks is D-9/R5, but so far, absolutely no pics, sorry....

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Hi Mike

..as Antoine says - there are some nice pics of a JG 301 Dora bombed-up (belly rack), rocket-toting JG 26 Dora and profile of the machine flown by Rudel in SAM Vol 27/12 (Feb 2006)

IIRC according to Rudel's own account he only the flew the D-9 once..- the pic is in Holger Nauroth's German-language history of SG 2.

That's interesting as, I read in one book, that Rudel became an ace on the D-9 and finished the war with 9 kills!

So for Rudel's D-9, would it be more likely it would have had just the single bomb on the centreline?

thanks

Mike

[Antoine]

I would have gone for an AB250, but the SC option is also good.

if you like, go also for the wing racks, as the D-9/R5 was not a myth, and no pics doesn't mean it doesn't existed.

[tank152]

Doras never had wing mounted bombs, the few that were pressed into ground attack opps flew with SC250 bombs carried on a ETC405 rack.

There is the famous photo taken from a film clip of Yellow 2 of II/JG6 taking of from a flooded airstrip in the East with such a set up.

This is the said film , 3 minutes 18 into the film shows II/JG6 Doras taking off.

Whether or not SG2 ever flew Doras on opps is debatable, at most I think it only probably had 4 or 5 on strength, enough to equip its Stabschwarm. When SG2 surrendered at Kitzingen none of their Doras were present. SG10 certainly had a few Doras photos exist of these and show that they carried the yellow Luftflotte 4 markings.

Also off topic I know but heres a link to a thread on LEMB discussing the use of WGr 21 and R4M on Doras.

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=4033

Tim.

Edited April 22, 2013 by tank152

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Thanks guys.

I think I'll depict Rudel's aircraft with just the Sc250 under the fuselage, as if nothing else it is in keeping with it being a Schlact unit and it will make it different to the other Fw190D's I have.

I can use the bomb racks for the Sc50 bombs on an F I have planned. From what I've seen in drawings the racks use on the experimental Panzerschrek launchers look very much like the SC50 bomb racks. So a what if F-8 with Panzershrek will be done.

thanks

Mike

[dogsbody]

The Monogram Close-Up No.10 states that relatively few Fw190D-9/R5's were completed. They were fitted with two ETC 50 or ETC 71 racks beneath each wing.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Milos Gazdic]

They seem to have been very rare but the photos have surfaced up since the original post has been made:

Edited November 28, 2021 by Milos Gazdic

[SafetyDad]

The photo you uploaded Milos was available here (as Chris aka @dogsbody stated above)

 

 

at the time of the original post - this Close-Up was published in 1986.

 

 

From the size and shape of the Balkenkreuz it would seem to be a Fieseler-built airframe.

 

The JaPo books on the Fw190D add some further detail to this particular airframe

 

 

 

They make the case that the racks seen here are non-standard, and perhaps not from the production line. Also very unusual - see below

 

 

So only two known Fw 190D-9s fitted with underwing ETC 50 racks. Both Fieseler built - a coincidence or a small conversion batch?

 

Source: Deboeck M, Larger E and Poruba T (2007) Focke-Wulf 190D Camouflage and Markings Part II JaPo Hradec Kralove  

 

SD

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello SD!
I am sorry if I have missed Chris' post above.
I could not find the photo from JaPo's book online but the post I have made was just to show that no matter how rare they were, Doras with the rack still existed.
I sincerely hope we will be seeing some more of them in foreseeable future. Based on the things we know, there were plans to use them in ground attacks so I guess some kind of modifications could have been made, even maybe on unit level?!
Best,
Milos
 

[SafetyDad]

2 hours ago, Milos Gazdic said:

Hello SD!
I am sorry if I have missed Chris' post above.
I could not find the photo from JaPo's book online but the post I have made was just to show that no matter how rare they were, Doras with the rack still existed.
I sincerely hope we will be seeing some more of them in foreseeable future. Based on the things we know, there were plans to use them in ground attacks so I guess some kind of modifications could have been made, even maybe on unit level?!
Best,
Milos
 

I totally agree Milos. It would be good to see if any further pictures emerge of bomb-carrying 190D-9s.

Kind regards

 

SD

[dogsbody]

I have edited my posting above and removed the old Photo-crap-bucket image and have added a Flickr version.

 

 

 

Chris

[MDriskill]

It is known that D-9's were in fact assigned to ground-attack units.

 

Jerry Crandall's "Dora" volume 2 contains three images of aircraft assigned to II./SG 10. These unfortunately don't allow a full side-view to be constructed, or show any details of underwing racks or armament. Jerry notes the photos were taken in Austria, and that the aircraft's painting details hint strongly at a Mimetall-built machine with 500-series serial. 

 

[dov]

Here in this topic I would be careful:

If you relay on Rudel a/c: He was a master with his canon only!

Secondly: If we find some rare photos with any equipment we should differ between operational units and operational standard equipment in opposition to some trials and tests.

Look at squadron records or individual pilots records to get a clue what really happened.

This strange photos survied, for two reasons: The winner of war was intetested what else the ennemy had, and the looser was interested in the ideal wonder weapon. This are the reasons, why such subjects are far overestimated! In many cases the same photos show up at every book about this type.

One example: Fw-190 with torpedo, some other weapons, nothing at all operational.

Even if some equipment became standard, some were seldom used.

Consider that!

Happy modelling 

[Werdna]

10 hours ago, MDriskill said:

It is known that D-9's were in fact assigned to ground-attack units.

 

Jerry Crandall's "Dora" volume 2 contains three images of aircraft assigned to II./SG 10. These unfortunately don't allow a full side-view to be constructed, or show any details of underwing racks or armament. Jerry notes the photos were taken in Austria, and that the aircraft's painting details hint strongly at a Mimetall-built machine with 500-series serial. 

 

 

Sorry, this is slightly off-topic - but I just wanted to remark on the 'exhaust staining' on the cowl in the above pic.  The more I look at it, the less it looks like staining and the more it has the appearance of being 'painted on'.  It also seems to stop rather abruptly at the end of the power egg, without continuing over the rest of the fuselage.  I hadn't seen this particular pic before, so this may have already been discussed previously, but if anyone has any thoughts on that I'd be interested...

 

btw - I'm not suggesting it is painted on (there's probably a perfectly reasonable explanation that I haven't considered), just commenting on the 'oddly' precise appearance of it, in such a close-up pic.

[MDriskill]

I've noticed a similar "step" in the exhaust staining - although not to the same weird degree of "precision!" - in some other photos of the D-9's port side. 

 

 

 

 

 

The image with wing racks posted above is another good example. These photos are all from Crandall's "Dora" books.

 

Remembering that the D was basically an inline engine grafted onto a radial-engined airframe, the firewall at the aft end of the power egg is the widest point of the structure. I.e., the fuselage tapers inward both fore and aft of that point, making a slight "kink" in contour. This must have caused a break in the airflow over the fuselage, as it moved rapidly backwards and upwards from the prop.

 

There does seem to be significant variation in the effect, though - perhaps exacerbated by variations in panel fit, differences in recent flight details, etc.? Airflow around the supercharger intake seems to eliminate any corresponding effect on the starboard side, too.

Edited November 29, 2021 by MDriskill

[Milos Gazdic]

Hello Mike
I cannot see your 4 images enlarged

If there were not many photos out there of this strange cut of on exhaust stains I would think that maybe engine was added from old to a new airframe... but probably not?

Edited November 29, 2021 by Milos Gazdic

[dov]

Think the other way round. Simple. Change a panel!

Or, I do not know, add a panel if it has too much wear.

Happy modelling 

[MDriskill]

Again, seems like a trick of airflow is the simplest explanation. For whatever it's worth (which is not very much!), I tried to reproduce the effect on my 1/72 "Yellow 8."

 

😀

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by MDriskill

[MDriskill]

Back to the subject at hand, Mr. Crandall's volume 2 also mentions numerous D-9's equipped with R4M rockets. These include some machines of JGr.10, three known serial numbers from II./JG 26, and "White 52" and "White 57" of the Verbandfuhrerschule. The book includes several good images, including this one of "White 57:"

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by MDriskill

[Crimea River]

Also shown to good effect in the film footage of Schongau airfield posted elsewhere here.

[Ingo Ritz]

As far as the exhaust deposits go I wonder if selective cleaning could be a factor.  It is possible that the soot was removed from the lighter colored surfaces more frequently because it was more visible.