Tamiya 1/35 Type 1 Ho-Ni Self Propelled Gun- Good/ Bad?

[phat trev]

Tamiya 1/35 Type 1 Ho-Ni Self Propelled Gun, anyone built one or anyone know of any build reviews online (a google search does not throw up much)

Also, what schemes would it have had? I have seen a few yellow/green/brown camo versions online, is there a good reference anywhere?

[bigh827]

With out photos can't say on the paint for sure, but they sound like the colors used.

As for the kit, I have never built one, but it looks OK in photos.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

These were produced quite late so a tri-colour scheme is appropriate, my references are on a hard drive that I don't have access to ATM.....This model looks close to spot on for colour and pattern (as I recall it), the yellow looks perhaps a little vivid to my eye (I know this is a Ho-Ni III, only looking at the camo):

Edited April 4, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Nick Millman]

http://shimiyan21.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/135afv/01_2.html

Click at the top right to see the rest of the pictures.

http://tank.boy.jp/type1-s.htm

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~puce_00/kansei_milytaly/honi1/honi1.htm

If you want to see more from Japanese modelling sites Google '一式砲戦車 ホニ' with Japanese language selected.

Base colour was khaki ("earth grass colour") with olive green and dark brown camo segments. No yellow! The khaki base colour which can appear a little yellowish is sometimes confused for "dry grass colour" which was often applied over the other three colours in wavy lines. The interior (and possibly gun barrel) was in a a brown primer as shown on the first link. My e-guide primer on the subject is still available - for now:-

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/2012/01/japanese-armour-colours-primer-now.html

There is a review on http://www.armorama.co.uk but the site seems down at the moment.

Nick

Edited April 9, 2013 by Nick Millman

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Knew it was something bamboo/grass related but couldn't remember the name.....It's a fairly pale khaki compared to say Tamiya (XF-49), in my preferred 1/72 at any rate.

Were the overpainted bands of the yellower "dry grass colour" something that was continued later into the war? I've always thought of that scheme (four colour) as something from the earlier part of the war.....Up to maybe Guadalcanal or thereabouts. I seem to recall from a discussion elsewhere (different forum) that the colours changed slightly midwar.....I'll see if I can locate the thread.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[phat trev]

great links guys! much appreciated for sure.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Nick.....Is it certain that the brown primer colour in the interior isn't just a slightly less faded "earth grass colour"?

[Nick Millman]

Nick.....Is it certain that the brown primer colour in the interior isn't just a slightly less faded "earth grass colour"?

Could well be. One of the problems is distinguishing khaki, dry grass and the brown primer - the so-called "Japanese gun brown". In their sets for early camo GSI Creos show it as TC 18 Khaki (for the gun) and the tank base colour as TC 17 Brown but having examined colour photographs as well as actual samples of the brown primer and khaki I believe they have got this the wrong way round. It is possible that they were just variations of khaki supplied by different contractors with a distinction in use, e.g. as anti-corrosive primer and as camouflage paint. Interiors do seem to be a different colour to the exterior khaki and not just because of degradation.

To answer an earlier query, yes, I believe the dry grass was sometimes applied to the later three colour camouflage in thin wavy bands depending on the operating location - in fact I think the earlier "bright yellow" cruciform wavy lines were also dry grass and the idea of a bright yellow arose from veterans describing the dry grass colour that way.

The khaki colour was formally recorded in the instructions as Tsuchikusairo ( 土草色 literally “earth grass colour”) but also referred to as “Khaki iro” (カーキ色). It was a khaki drab, similar to British khaki drab but tending slightly towards mustard, similar to what is now called Kokuboushoku (国防色 - “national defence colour” e.g. “army khaki”). And it was quite dull when new - only 8.4% reflectivity. The official instructions called for it as the base colour - “the main colour for camouflage, suitable for all seasons” with the earth brown and dry grass applied to 30% and 20% of the vehicle respectively. The green was supposed to replace the khaki on the southern fronts or during spring and summer seasons but in usual practice it was just added as a fourth colour.

The dry grass colour was Karekusairo (枯草色). In practice it varied from a strong yellowish, sandy colour to a pale, slightly greenish ochre. It has been described as “medium tan with a yellow tint”, “light brown” and “dull sand colour” by some Japanese researchers. Lighter and brighter than the khaki with reflectivity of 15%. It was formally described as the brightest of the camouflage colours in use - “the colour of a dry grass field” - and typically is similar to FS 33440. It is not well represented in the GSI Creos sets.

The problem is that the khaki and dry grass colours often get mixed up, even by Japanese researchers/modellers and Japanese veterans will sometimes colloquially describe khaki as "dry grass colour" and dry grass colour as "khaki". In their tank colour sets GSI Creos have the base colour changing from khaki to dry grass after 1942 but I believe that was just a change in the formulation of the khaki paint to improve its anti-corrosive properties and their TC15 "dry grass" is actually a better representation of the khaki than the dry grass colour!

Nick

Edited April 9, 2013 by Nick Millman

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Cheers for the comprehensive reply Nick.....Still looking for the other thread, but your comment re: paint with improved corrosion resistance sounds familiar.

I've got about a company's worth of Airfix and Fujimi 1/76 Type 97s (mostly built but not painted) and intend to add some Milicast Type 95s to complete the force.....One day!

Edited April 10, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[phat trev]

Just wondering if the Japanese would have added 'protection' to the Type 1 for example piling sandbags around the top of the tank? I have seen photos of US Shermans and other tank with bags strewn across them (I guess to increase protection from bullet ricochet perhaps)

Also would camo nets have been used also? I am wanting to add a bit more interest to my Type 1. (not a bid AFV fan so scouring armorama and BM for interesting ideas)

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Check ML too: http://www.missing-lynx.com/dg.htm

I'm pretty sure they'd have used sandbags.....I'd like to learn more about camo netting myself, I've seen plenty of hessian scrim on British AFVs, but camo nets don't seem to be all that common in pictures of vehicles of other nationalities. I've often wondered if there's a definitive site for WWII camo netting, if there is I can't find it.

[phat trev]

Thanks sgt.squarehead Will checkout that link also