RussG Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hi, I am currently building the ICM Spitfire mk VIII and intend to represent Alan Pearts 81 Squadron FL-D in SEAC colours. The problem I have is with the starboard side positioning of the codes. There are plenty of photographs showing the port side of the Spitfire but none of the starboard. My question is do the codes run as we look at the right hand side 'FL-D' or 'D-FL'? I have only found one photo of an 81 Squadron Spitfire which shows the starboard side which was taken probably in Italy just before they left for the far east and this shows the coding as 'FL-D' (although you can only see the FL and then the roundel, I have just used 'D' as an example). Any help would be very much appreciated. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have a colour photo of an 81 Sqn Spit landing at Broadway (Burma) on my SEAC blog (currently offline). It shows the starboard side and although the individual letter can't be made out very well it reads as FL-* from the tail forwards. If Photobucket was still user friendly I'd post it here but I'm happy to pass it on by email if you pm me. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I've got Alan Pearts autobiography but sadly it doesn't show all that many photos. My collection of 81 Sqn photos (my Dad was attached to 81 Sqn from 1942 to late 43 during the North Africa campaign) shows one photo that agrees with Nick above, ie the same as the port side. How are you replicating the "Ace of Spades"? I've been looking for a suitable decal for that for some time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Would any of the transfers intended for JG53 do? That's where the design came from initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Nick, I have sent you a PM, thanks again. Kallisti, I too have Alan Pearts autobiography, and as you say it doesn't have many photos but it is well worth a read. As for the decals, I have bought a set of 81 Squadron decals from Ventura, ref V4822, Spitfires- Australian, New Zealand and Israeli, Alan Pearts aircraft is there with the 'Ace of Spades' Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ahh great, never seen those before. Wish they did a set in 1:32 - I have the Tamiya Mk VIII in the stash that I want to build as an 81 Sqn plane in Burma, although by the time 81 Sqn went to Burma my Dad had already been assigned to 4 Sqn in Burma, working on Hurricanes which I've already built a diorama of as you can see from the links in my sig below. I have a 1:32 HobbyBoss Spitfire Vb Trop that I will be building as an 81 Sqn machine during the North Africa campaign, converting it to a Vc as was used by Alan Peart et al when my Dad was attached to 81 Sqn. Will look forward to seeing your Burma Spitfire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 I would like to ask a quick question regarding the colour scheme, According to F/Lt. Peart the upper surfaces are chocolate brown, not dark earth and dark green and the undersurfaces are light blue. I am assuming this is not azure blue, but a light blue? Cheers, Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Could be the locally required (and procured?) "sky blue" or the Azure Blue of the original Desert scheme. In March 1943 India requested urgent supplies of paint from South Africa including 2000 gallons and 400 half-gallons of Sky, 50 gallons and 100 half gallons of Lt Med Blue and 50 gallons and 100 half-gallons of Med Blue. No Sky Blue, Azure Blue or Sea Grey, Medium was requested. Personally I think SEAC might have been using either the South African versions of Sky/Sky Blue or mixing a more blueish local "Sky" using Sky and Med Blues. I have absolutely no evidence of that apart from inference. Spit VIIIs arriving in Desert scheme might have remained Azure until they could be re-painted in the Sea Grey, Medium required after March 1944. FWIW from the ICI report on SEAC aircraft finishes (Sept 1944 to Dec 1944) (courtesy of Edgar) it might not matter too much:- "At the time of this tour, the colour schemes in the Command were controlled by an Air Force Order, India, of March 1944, co-relating various other orders on the subject. The main differences from the UK practice was the combination on upper surfaces of day fighters and bombers of Dark Green and Dark Earth in place of Dark Green and Ocean Grey. This led in most cases to complete re-camouflage of upper surfaces, and so long as this colour scheme is operationally necessary there is no avoiding at least overspraying the Ocean Grey with Dark Earth. A more serious general observation arises from the many Grey camouflage colours. In some instances it was felt necessary to recamouflage for example the under-surfaces of an aircraft because the shade of Grey was incorrect or had faded. Now it is unquestionably true that in Indian conditions of exposure, very marked changes in shade begin as soon as the coat has been applied, and these changes are often as great or greater than the differences between, say, two Greys in the camouflaging range. I therefore recommend strongly a rationalisation of camouflage colours, particularly greys." "The thickness of finish is due, of course, to the repeated refinish coats brought about by changes in colour schemes, repairs and "freshening up". This excessive thickness is surprisingly universal - very few metal surfaces of aircraft actually in use have less than three or four coats." "All the Spitfires examined were Mark VIII or P.R.U. Almost all the VIII's had arrived in SEAC in Middle East Colour scheme and had been refinished." "It was difficult to obtain data on the relative performance of DTD 517 and DTD 314 top coats, since both tended to be oversprayed with DTD 83A or DTD 314 on arrival in SEAC." "The climate is such that fading and chalking of matt camouflage colours is enormously greater than it is in the UK. So much is this so that it makes nonsense of carefully selected colours for camouflage schemes. This leads to the suggestion in Section B(d) of this report that the colour range be reduced." Sorry this reply is not as quick as the question. Others may know more. Nick Edited April 10, 2013 by Nick Millman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 A great reply Nick, thanks very much. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 That ICI quote says it all: "The climate is such that fading and chalking of matt camouflage colours is enormously greater than it is in the UK. So much is this so that it makes nonsense of carefully selected colours for camouflage schemes" When I did my SEAC Hurricane, I did a special mix of Dark Green and Dark Earth with added buff to "fade" it down to represent the conditions in that part of the world. I don't think there is any such thing as the "right" colours out there, plenty of opportunity for artistic interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Ahh great, never seen those before. Wish they did a set in 1:32 - I have the Tamiya Mk VIII in the stash that I want to build as an 81 Sqn plane in Burma I'd love to do the one with the 152 Sqn panther "chasing" the 81 Sqn "Ace". I had thought the Kagero "Topshots" Mk.VIII book might have 81, but apparently not- I was probably thinking of the Australian ones with a full "Ace of Spades" card on the tail. The 152 Sqn part is no problem, but the 81 part is. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Thats an amusing picture - 81 and 152 sqns were old rivals from the North Africa campaign and this was one of 152's pranks on 81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Ah, so it's been "zapped"! I don't think I understood that before, thanks! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizza65 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Flt Engineer Dennis Hawkings 81sqd Malta-Burma & "Broadway" forward airbase Hi, just picking up on this thread...I have spoken with my G/Father Dennis (detail above) about the paint schemes and he said simply dark brown and Green with a bluish underbelly. I have recently ( 1 week ago) talked to him about life with the kites and he said that some kites came in tropical colours when they were rushed through to Kangla. They had a sqd sprayer, he could spray a kite in a couple of hours, he was ordered to drink a pint of milk a day for his health! He had a full spray suit with helmet an electric motor to drive the airbrush. Most spraying dried in 10 minutes in the heat and was almost always conducted outside. He had a template made up for the "Ace of spades" ensignia and the ground crew would ask the sprayer to also put the "ace of spades" ensignia on the lorries attached to the sqd as "bragging rights". Dennis is in great shape mentally and physically so if you have any questions on 145sqd (Polish) and 81sqd Matla - Burma and "Broadway" fire away. I have recently connected Dennis with Alan Peart..wow!! I think both sets of false teeth fell out as they were both at Broadway the morning of 17th March 44. regards Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Thats great news about Alan Peart, well done in getting that connection made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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