US Atomic Weapons on RAF Phantoms

[Procopius]

Like everything built in the 1950s -- jets, ships, artillery pieces, television sets, blenders, etc. -- the F-4 Phantom could be armed with nuclear weapons. Were RAF FGR.2s given access to US tactical nuclear bombs prior to the arrival of the Jaguar and WE.177? If so, what bombs, and how were they carried?

[Grizzly]

Like everything built in the 1950s -- jets, ships, artillery pieces, television sets, blenders, etc. -- the F-4 Phantom could be armed with nuclear weapons. Were RAF FGR.2s given access to US tactical nuclear bombs prior to the arrival of the Jaguar and WE.177? If so, what bombs, and how were they carried?

I think you will find this role was covered by 15 / 16 Sqn BuccaneerS2Bs in Germany.

[Dave Fleming]

From memory, the ground attack F-4 squadrons were nuclear capable, using American controlled weapons.

See here:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/504898-raf-phantoms-strike-role.html

and

[Dr Evil]

RAF Phantoms were cleared to carry either the B43 or B57 weapon on the centreline station. As I understand it, it was deemed to expensive to clear WE.177 on the Toom just as a stopgap so the US controlled bombs were made available under the 'Dual key' system.

[Giorgio N]

Is there any picture of these aircrafts with such a load ? Did the squadrons have aircrafts armed on permanent alert ?

I've never been a big fan of the FGR.2 in attack squadrons (prefer to build mine in air defence markings), but the idea of a model with a B43 or 57 under the belly might prompt me to change my mind...

[Starfighter]

In answer to Giogio's question, the RAF Germany FGR 2's certainly DID carry US nuclear weapons. At Bruggen there were three Phantoms on 24 hour / 365 days a year nuclear alert duties ( One from each squadron i.e.: 14, 17 and 31 sqdns. ) I know this for a fact as I was an aircraft weapons mechanic on 17 sqdn. from 1971 - 74, and did several 7 day rotations on QRA duty. In fact, for the last year I was there I did QRA duty permanently ( My choice !)

The aircraft were at 15 minute readiness to scramble, but would only have launched if the "Balloon had gone up" as they say. Standard fit was two Sparrow missiles in the forward fuselage stations ( 4 and 6 ) and a nuclear weapon on the centreline station. The aircraft were housed in open - ended "Dutch barn " type shelters, with an RAF and USAF guard for each aircraft. The whole area was surrounded by a double fence with guard dogs patrolling at night, so was a very secure area. HTH

[Bari]

I can confirm Starfighters account, i was a 'Sooty' on 14 sqn from 73-76 and spent many a week on QRA. I believe the bombs were type B57 but this designation has lurched through the memory from a long time ago so don't take it as gospel.

[Giorgio N]

In answer to Giogio's question, the RAF Germany FGR 2's certainly DID carry US nuclear weapons. At Bruggen there were three Phantoms on 24 hour / 365 days a year nuclear alert duties ( One from each squadron i.e.: 14, 17 and 31 sqdns. ) I know this for a fact as I was an aircraft weapons mechanic on 17 sqdn. from 1971 - 74, and did several 7 day rotations on QRA duty. In fact, for the last year I was there I did QRA duty permanently ( My choice !)

The aircraft were at 15 minute readiness to scramble, but would only have launched if the "Balloon had gone up" as they say. Standard fit was two Sparrow missiles in the forward fuselage stations ( 4 and 6 ) and a nuclear weapon on the centreline station. The aircraft were housed in open - ended "Dutch barn " type shelters, with an RAF and USAF guard for each aircraft. The whole area was surrounded by a double fence with guard dogs patrolling at night, so was a very secure area. HTH

It does help indeed, thanks a lot !

As you know the subject well, hope you don't mind another couple of questions: did they carry underwing tanks or just the sparrows and the bomb? What pylon was used for the bomb ?

I'm sure I have 1/72 decals for a 17 Sqn aircraft in Germany, might be a good way to use them !

[IV(AC)Plumb]

You'll want one of these then?

[Starfighter]

It does help indeed, thanks a lot !

As you know the subject well, hope you don't mind another couple of questions: did they carry underwing tanks or just the sparrows and the bomb? What pylon was used for the bomb ?

I'm sure I have 1/72 decals for a 17 Sqn aircraft in Germany, might be a good way to use them !

It does help indeed, thanks a lot !

As you know the subject well, hope you don't mind another couple of questions: did they carry underwing tanks or just the sparrows and the bomb? What pylon was used for the bomb ?

I'm sure I have 1/72 decals for a 17 Sqn aircraft in Germany, might be a good way to use them !

The standard fit was for two underwing tanks, two inboard pylons ( Empty ) and the weapon was mounted directly on the centreline rack, plus the previously mentioned Sparrow AAM's . I've read that the weapon was a B57, but I seem to remember that the bomb was longer than one of those . . . more like the one shown in IV(AC)plumb's picture. mind you, it WAS a long time ago, so maybe someone can confirm that ?

[Starfighter]

I can confirm Starfighters account, i was a 'Sooty' on 14 sqn from 73-76 and spent many a week on QRA. I believe the bombs were type B57 but this designation has lurched through the memory from a long time ago so don't take it as gospel.

If you were at Bruggen on QRA then our paths must have crossed ! Do you remember a Dusty Miller ?

[Procopius]

Wow, this is all excellent information, gentlemen!

[Bari]

Hi, Starfighter ,Yes Dusty vaguely rings a bell, I remember we shared the hanger with you. heres a photo of the lads a Deci in 74 or 75. I can remember all the faces and trades but most of the names have gone. Part of getting old I suppose. Thats me sat on the wing just above the pylon

Edited March 27, 2013 by Bari

[Giorgio N]

Some great info, thanks a lot !

The bomb in the picture is a B61, one of the most common US tactical nukes in the '70s. Luckily it's also one of the few available in 1/72 scale (in the old Italeri weapons set). I have a Phantom kit, I have the weapon set with the bomb, I have the decals.... just need the time to build the model now !

[Starfighter]

Hi, Starfighter ,Yes Dusty vaguely rings a bell, I remember we shared the hanger with you. heres a photo of the lads a Deci in 74 or 75. I can remember all the faces and trades but most of the names have gone. Part of getting old I suppose. Thats me sat on the wing just above the pylon

Hi Bari,

There seem to be some familiar faces, but as you say the names have faded with time ! Here's a pic of 17 san. at Deci, taken about 1972 or 1973. I'm standing on the wing, third from right with glasses giving the old "Two finger" salute !

[Roy LeMont]

What pylon was used for the bomb ?

This was posted over at ARC. It's an inert B61 on a USAFE F-4.

Cheers,

Roy

[xvtonker]

I agree, in 1975/76 the aircraft were housed one per HAS with live armed US military personnel and RAF police in guardposts external to each HAS.

XVTonker

In answer to Giogio's question, the RAF Germany FGR 2's certainly DID carry US nuclear weapons. At Bruggen there were three Phantoms on 24 hour / 365 days a year nuclear alert duties ( One from each squadron i.e.: 14, 17 and 31 sqdns. ) I know this for a fact as I was an aircraft weapons mechanic on 17 sqdn. from 1971 - 74, and did several 7 day rotations on QRA duty. In fact, for the last year I was there I did QRA duty permanently ( My choice !)

The aircraft were at 15 minute readiness to scramble, but would only have launched if the "Balloon had gone up" as they say. Standard fit was two Sparrow missiles in the forward fuselage stations ( 4 and 6 ) and a nuclear weapon on the centreline station. The aircraft were housed in open - ended "Dutch barn " type shelters, with an RAF and USAF guard for each aircraft. The whole area was surrounded by a double fence with guard dogs patrolling at night, so was a very secure area. HTH

[Starfighter]

I agree, in 1975/76 the aircraft were housed one per HAS with live armed US military personnel and RAF police in guardposts external to each HAS.

XVTonker

That was luxury ! We only had open ended shelters, which were not very warm, especially on practice alerts at 5.30 AM on a January morning ! :-D

[Starfighter]

I found this pic of a B43 nuclear weapon, and from what I can remember, it looks an awful lot like the ones carried by our FGR 2's. I have a book on F-4's which states that the British Phantoms carried B57 weapons, but looking at pics of them they seem too short to me. Perhaps someone can jog my memory as to the correct bomb ?

[Roy LeMont]

I found this pic of a B43 nuclear weapon, and from what I can remember, it looks an awful lot like the ones carried by our FGR 2's. I have a book on F-4's which states that the British Phantoms carried B57 weapons, but looking at pics of them they seem too short to me. Perhaps someone can jog my memory as to the correct bomb ?

The B43 and B57 looked very similar; the overall shape of the body and fins was almost identical, and live weapons were painted gloss white, unlike the B28 and B61 which were aluminum. The B57 was smaller in both size and yield; in fact, it was also used as a nuclear depth charge. B57 Link while the B43 was essentially a strategic weapon with yields up to 1 megaton. B43 Link.

Cheers,

Roy

[XV571]

Mark S of Wolfpak Decals makes a 1/72 B57 and B43 as well as a B28 in his Spectre Resin range: http://www.millcreekconsultants.com/SR-N1.html. The B57 (S72-N-007) is out of stock, but the B43-0/-1 (SR72-N-012) is available.

[Dave Fleming]

Resurrecting this now we have a new Phantom kit (and an FGR2 inbound) - does anyone know if there are any photos of Phantoms with nuclear weapons fitted? I know that photos of British aircraft with nukes were/are pretty rare, and very few emerged (usually by accident) whilst they were in service (e.g. WE177's visual appearance being classified until it was withdrawn from service) but wondered if any of the F4 had appeared?

Edited January 25, 2018 by Dave Fleming