PC2012 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks Jeffrey, I saw this from another thread... 'WEM paints are meant to be satin, and hence less glossy than Xtracolour, which are meant to be gloss.' So I think I'll go with the Xtracolor emamels.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) That's true, WEM paints normally have a satin surface and (most) Xtracolor are gloss. On the flip side though have WEM paints better pigment - it's easier to spray and settles down more smoothly, less danger of pooling etc. and they dry more quickly. However, on their website WEM explicitly quote FS16473 and the 1 at the beginning indicates gloss (as opposed to 2=satin, 3=matte) so I'm not sure whether it's not actually gloss as well.... Anyway, the Xtracolor definitely works and looks "right". Edited March 19, 2013 by JeffreyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 As you can see, I've filed the cockpit sill about halfway from the bottom. The next picture shows how well it fits at the bottom of the Aires tub. Third I was just testing to see how much room there is with the front canopy on, If the whole thing was raised to the level of the cockpit sill. Have you finished your's Jeffrey? Do you have a link? Sorry forgot the pics!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 The seatbelts aren't accurate. The 104-C has a web of small belts linked together. No matter what I tried I couldn't make it look right, so settled for a cross between the 104-C and 104-G belts... I think it looks okay - still needs some touching up and highlights. I oil washed after fitting because they looked too bright! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 As you can see, I've filed the cockpit sill about halfway from the bottom. The next picture shows how well it fits at the bottom of the Aires tub. Third I was just testing to see how much room there is with the front canopy on, If the whole thing was raised to the level of the cockpit sill. Have you finished your's Jeffrey? Do you have a link? Yes, finished about a year ago (oh dear, that was the last model I've finished!)...link here: LINK Keep at it, it's going to look great! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Fippin heck - that is seriously nice.... Do you have a build thread? I'd love to get mine as good as that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Just looked at your site Jeffrey. I think I'm going to order the tyre set and Edwards AFB transfers... what do you use for payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieuwe Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 ...sorry to jump in here, but they are actually FS16473, which is Aircraft Grey or ADC Grey. Light Gull Grey is FS36440 (or 16440 for gloss) and a little different. Isn't ADC grey too blueish? If it's the same colour used on Michigan ANG F-4C's then it certainly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 ADC Grey definitely has a slight blueish tint, but it is the right colour - FS16473 always gets quoted as the paint directive for Starfighter wing undersurfaces on all non-camouflaged airframes by all operators. I'm not sure about the F-4C, in their early days it would most likely have been painted FS16473 as most other ADC and ANG planes (F-106 comes to mind), but perhaps that changed at some point to a darker scheme... Just looked at your site Jeffrey. I think I'm going to order the tyre set and Edwards AFB transfers... what do you use for payment? Thanks a lot, I use PayPal, but you don't need a PP account. You can use a credit or debit card as well. Cheers J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 PC2012., One word..AWESOME .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Fippin heck - that is seriously nice.... Do you have a build thread? I'd love to get mine as good as that! Thank you, yes I had a build thread but didn't take that many photos...LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 ADC Grey definitely has a slight blueish tint, but it is the right colour - FS16473 always gets quoted as the paint directive for Starfighter wing undersurfaces on all non-camouflaged airframes by all operators. I'm not sure about the F-4C, in their early days it would most likely have been painted FS16473 as most other ADC and ANG planes (F-106 comes to mind), but perhaps that changed at some point to a darker scheme... Thanks a lot, I use PayPal, but you don't need a PP account. You can use a credit or debit card as well. Cheers J Thanks - Jeffrey I'll PM you. Thanks Houston - I'm going to need a lot of help on this one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Your build thread - will be a great help, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieuwe Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 ADC Grey definitely has a slight blueish tint, but it is the right colour - FS16473 always gets quoted as the paint directive for Starfighter wing undersurfaces on all non-camouflaged airframes by all operators. I'm not sure about the F-4C, in their early days it would most likely have been painted FS16473 as most other ADC and ANG planes (F-106 comes to mind), but perhaps that changed at some point to a darker scheme... Thanks a lot, I use PayPal, but you don't need a PP account. You can use a credit or debit card as well. Cheers J I don't remember it being quite as dark or with any blue hue as ADC grey but perhaps that is due to the paint weathering or my memory failing me, last time I saw the underside of a NMF 104 was KG101 when it was still at Niederrhein / Laarbruch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Did a little work this weekend. I've been trying to get the exhaust colous correct. I used the kit exhaust to try a few techniques I started with Tamiya fine white primer, Alcald jet exhaust, Alclad burnt metal, a dark blue oil wash, then vallego dark sand (airbrushed, left 10 mins and removed with cotton bud). Inside I AB with pale sand vallego, the again wiped off the highlights with a cotton bud. I think it looks okay. Just added some pics of the Aires UC bay nose UC bay.and exhaust. I'll paint the main UC bay next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Some sources also quote FS16515 (Canadian Voodoo Grey) for the lower surfaces of the wings. This might in fact be true for the Canadair-built airframes. FS16515 is a bit lighter and less blue than FS16473. Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 I've been working on the UC bay. Doesn't look too bad I think. I've also been trying various paint techniques for the exhaust... not happy with any of them at the moment!... more to follow soon.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Maas Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) Note that early F-4C's actually were Light Gull Grey over White, not ADC Grey. Unusual but done to speed up production since they were built and painted alongside Navy F-4's and had a Navy scheme applied, the grey was changed to ADC Grey later in production but kept the Navy-style Grey over White layout. My Canadian-specific references specify FS16473 underwing for the CAF CF-104's in NMF. So Voodoo Grey is unlikely unless it was a field repaint. Another possibility for field repaints of NMF CF-104's is 509-109 Grey. But I'd expect that to be rare to nonexistent, NMF CF-104's were operated primarily in Canada and never really deployed far from the depot for extended periods, as they were primarily operated by the conversion squadrons and AETF. Edited March 29, 2013 by Adam Maas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 HI Everyone, I've slowly been putting the kit together, there are a few issues with fit, mostly to do with the Aires stuff but I'm getting there. I did some tests with Alclad on an old Hawk kit. I'm quite pleaseed with the result. I used Tamiya fine white primer for the base, rubbed down and washed with soap and water. Then a fine mist coat of Alclad gloss black, rubbed down with micromesh, then washed.. then two wet coats both rubbed down and washed between coats. I then experimented with varios mix's of Alclad, including polished aluminium, chrome with hot blue and without.. also mixed with dark ali,pale burnt metal. I also tried spraying at different distances using about 12psi. It seems to work best spraying very light mist coats and buldinh up.. the more you spray on the less reflective it becomes... I put the part with some kitchen utensils which I think shows how good it looks! Some pics of the aircraft.... lots of seams to fill! the fit of the Aires wheelbay wasn't great.. so will fill it when I spray and fit the jet intakes.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Note that early F-4C's actually were Light Gull Grey over White, not ADC Grey. Unusual but done to speed up production since they were built and painted alongside Navy F-4's and had a Navy scheme applied, the grey was changed to ADC Grey later in production but kept the Navy-style Grey over White layout. USAF F-4Cs and RF-4Cs started out in Light Gull Grey (FS36440) and white (FS37875). After that they were repainted in the SEA scheme (FS34079, FS34102, FS30219 and FS36622). Some test and ANG Phantoms were painted overall ADC Grey (FS16473), but Phantoms were never ADC Grey and white. Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 A few points about Alclad. I have had no problems with putting masking tape on both polished aluminium or chrome. I also tried microsol and microset without any marking of the surface.I tried an oil wash an that caused damage. Also putting pressure on the paint with my bare hands coursed fingerprints on the surface (you cannot get these off!). So when I come to paint the actual model I'll make sure I use gloves after! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Yes, finished about a year ago (oh dear, that was the last model I've finished!)...link here: LINK Keep at it, it's going to look great! J With apologies to "Mr. 12", I just want to repeat the other comments- "Bloomin' heck!" It is builds like this that make me wonder if I should ever try to build a model again! But fear not- I don't let those feelings persist. I've also been trying various paint techniques for the exhaust... not happy with any of them at the moment!... more to follow soon.. Goodness, I thought your first showing of the exhaust looked amazing, but I admit I wasn't comparing it to any photos of an actual F-104 exhaust. Very effective camouflage! And terrific photo reference, though I confess I'll need to study the text with total attention. Those naked airframe photos do make me glad I'm NOT contemplating a bare metal Starfighter. (I tend to go for the flashy "special schemes" - I suppose the type looks so "out there" that it deserves a paint job to match...) I think I'll be using this thread and its linked threads as a reference! bob Edited April 10, 2013 by gingerbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC2012 Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Thanks Bob. I heard so many horror stories about alclad, so was reluctant to try it. However, so far (crossed fingers) I have had no problems. I'm glad I did the tests first though. I've just sprayed the inlet cones alclad chrome... what do you think? It's hard to show in photo's just how much it looks like polished metal.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I've just sprayed the inlet cones alclad chrome... what do you think? I think it looks like polished metal. You've certainly got the knack of this Alclad malarkey. I love the Hawk fuselage nestled in between the cutlery. It shows the metallic look of the paint perfectly Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 A veritable masterclass lesson in Alclad!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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