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Vac-forms, these days


Scratchbuilder

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I'm wondering, with the ever increasing prices of specialist kits whether there's still a lace for the much cheaper to produce vac-form.

Anybody have a hankering for a relatively inexpensive vac-form in the modern world?

Martin

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I don't think vacforms ever were that cheap compared to other types of kit, look at Dynavector kits for a start , when they were readily availible in this country they were about thirty quid each. I think this is due to the lower volume of production rather than compared to other kits. Having said that , I've always liked a good vac-form and much prefer this type of kit to resin and for this reason I would be quite happy to see any new range of vac-form kits appear.

They could start with a 1/48 Bristol Brigand or Blackburn Firebrand or both.

Andrew

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There is no reason why the tooling should be any more expensive than for resin, just different and the cost of production must be cheaper. No expensive moulds, no expensive resin, etc.

If designed properly they should be no great pain to make, though will always need a few basic skills.

Perhaps it's time to drag 'em back on the scene?

Martin

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Yes, I'm in.. I got building vacs last year and have been converted! Would love to see another range of vacs out.. If I get the time I'm going to be making a master for a vac in 1/32nd this year, most likely a Short Skyvan!

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id be interested for sure, i want a valiant but cant afford the airfix jobbie found 2 cheapo vacforms for £15 all in so i dont care if theyr difficult to put together lol (i intend to make a b2 with 1 of them)

if you end up with a second set of b2 parts you have no need for...please can you let me know, as my vacform valiant doesnt include them. i believe some did and some didnt

cheers

steve

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if you end up with a second set of b2 parts you have no need for...please can you let me know, as my vacform valiant doesnt include them. i believe some did and some didnt

cheers

steve

i had no idea any of them had b2 parts in them lol i assumed id have to scratchbuild them

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I miss the fact that there are almost no new vacform kits coming to market these days. The world seems to have gone over to resin, and resin isn't a panacea. Some things can be done better (and probably cheaper) in vacform :shrug:

It must be a couple of years since I did a vacform now... I'm getting itchy feet, but rarely have the time or energy for it at the moment. :(

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Took the plunge recently, and got a 1:32nd scale JP5/Strikemaster from Tigger Models - before I have a go at that, I'm going to build the Welsh Models Viscount I have, just to get a feel for it. There's something intriguing about the idea of having to do a fair amount of scratch-building to make themodel believable, and it takes me back to the balsa and tissue days of my youth. Should be fun!

It really would be nice to see more vacforms being produced.

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I've just recently finished my first-ever vacform kit, and it was a load of fun. I've got quite a few more in the stash, most of which have been supplanted by more mainstream (or at lest short-run) IM kits. I think there's still plenty of interest in vac kits, even now, and I'm personally looking forward to building another one. We're even contemplating a vac group build over on LSP.

I'd love to be able to afford some of the Welsh or AIM kits, but they're at least as expensive, if not more so, than mainstream kits. Not cheap at all!

Kev

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I look at Dynavector kits for a start , when they were readily availible in this country they were about thirty quid each.

Andrew

You get an awful lot of kit for your money with a Dynavector kit and an Aeroclub kit as well.

Have a look at a some of the vacform airliner kits currently available. That will make your eyes water.

Chris.

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I wish that there was still a steady flow of new vac form kits being released. As Mike said, nearly everything a bit specialised comes out as a great big block of expensive resin, where a vac might have been a bit cheaper to manufacture and probably a whole lot more interesting to build!

Aeroclub and Dynavector models are about the best and most detailed vac kits available - easily comparable to detail levels in an advanced injection moulded kit. Other good contenders would be Welsh Models and Falcon.

Karl

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I'm a big fan of vacform and I'd happily buy more if there were more available.

However I agree with Andrew: vac kits have never been cheap ! I have a few mail order shop catalogues from the '80s when vacforms were available from the likes of rareplanes, maintrackm, aeroclub and others and for similar subjects the vac kits were considerably more expensive than mainstream plastic kits. Of course there was nothing strange or bad in this, as any handmade product will always be more expensive than one made using industrial equipment and in industrial numbers.

Today vac kits can be found for cheap at model shows and this is a great way for us to lay our hands on cheap kits of interesting and unusual subjects... but a modern vacform kit of say a Valiant (just because it's been mentioned) would cost probably 1.5 times an airfix kit

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With vacform I tend to find that such aircraft that has not been produced by the mainstream manufacturer can still fetch quite a bit of money such as many Airways vac kits such as the 1/72 Bristol Brittania which can fetch over £70 on certain auction sites, but when a plastic injected version comes along the price drops such as the Airways Vickers Valiant which some people have trouble selling

Edited by kev67
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id be interested for sure, i want a valiant but cant afford the airfix jobbie found 2 cheapo vacforms for £15 all in so i dont care if theyr difficult to put together lol (i intend to make a b2 with 1 of them)

Funnily enough I don't remember an airliner called the Valiant and up here in Scotland the word "jobbie" has a meaning which I doubt mrvr6 intended! :winkgrin:

I enjoy vacforms and I've built many of Welsh Models' kits from the Vickers Viking to the B747SP. However I'm not a great fan of their pressure moulded resin and I'm genuinely sorry that they seem to have discontinued most of their "pure" vacforms. Although Welsh Models kits are usually pretty accurate they do get things wrong occasionally and correcting errors in resin parts is much more difficult than fixing a vacform. For example in their recent Do328 the sit of the engines is wrong and lacks the noticeable downwards angle of the real thing. That wouldn't be a problem in a conventional vacform but when the wings and engines come as single resin components fixing it is next to impossible. The part-resin kits are now very expensive so If there is an accuracy problem, as with the Do328, you can end up paying serious cash for a kit that cannot be made into a properly accurate model.

Edited by David G
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In my opinion it is better for both manufacturer and for customer to stick to resin for typical post WW2 1:72 fighter-size models. Vacforms however are justified when the linear dimensions of the model are significant and therefore the cost of resin cast becomes too high (not to mention technological problems of casting large partsin resin)

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This is a refreshing post for a change. I have in fact been looking seriously at doing some more Vacs I have a number of patterns Saro London, Valleta etc in 1:72 in the store of subjects which are too big for me to produce injected without a multi component breakdown.

For instance my Saro London fuselage is no problem in Vac but is a pain to mould injected and in resin it puts quids on the cost.

Vacforms are easy to produce but detail parts need to be in other media such as metal ,injected or resin. The so called multimedia kits, I popularised this in the early eighties with my own range kits and supplying parts to most other small UK companies. The cost of kit production depends on the the amount of mould material and cost of the masters and whether these are contracted out or not. I have used my good friend Brian for some of the patterns in the past but I have done my own (and all of the mould work) for most of the range and all the conversions and accessories. A vac mould will produce multiple hundreds and a resin mould 25 to 30 and a short run Injected mould 100 to a 1000

It's great doing work for modellers but there's nothing worse that listening to the defeatist approach of many so called modellers. "Cor my favourite plane, Oh it's a vacform"!

Vacforms are easy providing basic rules are followed and the kit patterns and construction is of good quality.

So is there a market?

John

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For airliners I'm sure there would be in 1/144 scale as it matches the kits already available and built.

fwiw I learned a lot of my vac skills from John....:) ty mate!

as to price, I would have a *lot* more welsh kits but they cost too much...

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...It's great doing work for modellers but there's nothing worse that listening to the defeatist approach of many so called modellers. "Cor my favourite plane, Oh it's a vacform"!

Vacforms are easy providing basic rules are followed and the kit patterns and construction is of good quality.

So is there a market?

If you can get past the "Cor my favourite plane, Oh it's a vacform" attitude, then there will be a market (and I would love to see the vacform market increase). I think the best way to get people to get over their fear of/disappointment with vacforms would be to persuade some well-known magazines to run one or two (or, preferably, several) comprehensive build reviews. If people can see the wonderful results, and have a clear picture of what's involved, they're more likely to try.

It will take time to build the market, but it would be worth the effort.

Now all that needs to happen is to persuade the usual suspects to do the reviews! ;).

Edited by John Laidlaw
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It will take time to build the market, but it would be worth the effort.

I disagree here - the golden age for vacuforms has long gone, there WAS market, now there is a small niche for esoteric subjects not covered by injection/resin kits. And the raise of Eastern European and Far East kit manufacturers makes this niche smaller with each new released model.

BTW - have you guys seen this brilliant article on Aeroscale?

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=features&file=view&artid=4305

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I miss the fact that there are almost no new vacform kits coming to market these days. The world seems to have gone over to resin, and resin isn't a panacea. Some things can be done better (and probably cheaper) in vacform :shrug:

It must be a couple of years since I did a vacform now... I'm getting itchy feet, but rarely have the time or energy for it at the moment. :(

The rise of resin kits is possibly down to the fact that the price of the materials to actually produce them has fallen dramatically and the skills to produce them are what most modellers have anyway. Any idiot can now set up their own resin casting outfit but vacforms are more of a skill.

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In my opinion it is better for both manufacturer and for customer to stick to resin for typical post WW2 1:72 fighter-size models. Vacforms however are justified when the linear dimensions of the model are significant and therefore the cost of resin cast becomes too high (not to mention technological problems of casting large partsin resin)

Not forgetting the weight......I've been working with a resin 1/48 scale CASA C-101 Aviojet for years, and can't imagine how to sort the weight matter...

I'm sure the undercarriage legs won't stand for too long, and the whole thing seems fragile and difficult to handle once built...

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