cpl of questions

[mrvr6]

what was the best anti air weapon of the 70s? ie if i scratchbuild a ship what anit air defense should i use

also what was the outer diameter of a big (16"+) battleship gun? is it calibre x something or did it vary? i dont need exact numbers because itl be 700 scale but something aproximate would be nice

[Ossian]

Can't speak for the 16" guns, but the 15" ones outside the Imperial War Museum are about 5-6" thick at the muzzle, so an overall diameter of around 27" (say anything from 23" up -- pictures of sailors sitting on them might give more of a clue).

Obviously considerably thicker near the breach:

Pictures from a google search -- for fair use only

Edited February 3, 2013 by Ossian

[mrvr6]

Can't speak for the 16" guns, but the 15" ones outside the Imperial War Museum are about 5-6" thick at the muzzle, so an overall diameter of around 27" (say anything from 23" up -- pictures of sailors sitting on them might give more of a clue).

Obviously considerably thicker near the breach:

Pictures from a google search -- for fair use only

cracking pictures them

what are they off?

i might look for smaller 350 scale guns and make turrets

[JohnT]

Guns are off HMS Ramilles and HMS Roberts

[Ossian]

Guns are off HMS Ramilles and HMS Roberts

The same 15"/42 Mk1 design was used on the QE, R, Renown and Hood classes (13 ships), as well as some monitors and, of course, Outrageous and Uproarious (sorry, Courageous and Glorious) before they saw the light and became aircraft carriers)

More info from IWM: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30025302

and NavWeaps: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_15-42_mk1.htm

Arguably the best naval gun from the dreadnought era - some would say the US 16"/50 but based on the action they saw, the 15" takes the prize.

If you are doing 1/350th, there will be aftermarket brass barrels for the Warspite and Queen Elizabeth kits

Edited February 3, 2013 by Ossian

[AntPhillips]

Is it Royal Navy we're talking about, if so the choices for AA in the 70's would be:

40mm Bofors probably in single mount.

Sea Cat missile, quadruple launcher fitted to virtually every frontline RN warship class, throughout the 70's.

Sea Dart missile, twin launcher, fitted to destroyers and larger eg Invincible class as built.

Sea Slug missile, twin launcher, the system took up huge amount of space, used in County class destroyers, would not fit this in anything smaller, it was superseded by Sea Dart which took up a whole lot less space.

Some of the ex-RN guys here might give a better insight into which is more suitable.

The 70's saw a lot of ships designed with reduced AA fit, this was exposed during the Falklands conflict and from early 80's the RN increased both the variety of and quantity of AA weaponry fitted.

[mrvr6]

any navy this is for a mental whif

thats a good start though thanks

ps this will be ALOT bigger than anything ever put to sea by anybody everer so space isnt an issue lol

[AntPhillips]

any navy this is for a mental whif

thats a good start though thanks

ps this will be ALOT bigger than anything ever put to sea by anybody everer so space isnt an issue lol

I'm intrigued, go on give us a clue

[mrvr6]

I'm intrigued, go on give us a clue

approx 5ft long at 700 scale

[grahamwalker]

That is a whif does a dock exisit to fit it

[mrvr6]

That is a whif does a dock exisit to fit it

at 3500 feet long id be suprised lol

[chuckb1]

Fit wise Sea Cat on the Exocet Leanders we had one fwd two aft. The TA ships only had the after fit to reduce weight. the Exocet and Sea Wolf Leanders only had one launcher fwd. All had WW2 Vintage Oerlikons. I remember Avenger had the Oerlikons from Ardent retro fitted. They were salvaged as on one of the gun shields was written "Ardents Avengers. After the Falklands we could not get enough close in AA cover. Hard lessons learnt from San Carlos water.

Standard fits were

Sea Cat in Quad mounting with the Director Aft of the Mountings

Single 40mm Bofors Port and Stbd

Single 20mm Oerlikons

LMG's mounted on a pedestal on the bridge wings

GPMG's Single mounted on pedestals fwd and aft (Especially after the Falklands war. We had them also on the waist by the hanger door on one of the leanders I served on.

Glamorgan had 20mm Twin Oerlikons fitted to the half deck on the waists. This was due to her Sea Cat being removed after the Falklands again they were WW2 vintage. The Stbd pair were my action station I was the Quarters Rating / Aimer.

Sea Slug was only fitted to the County Class DDG's as the Slug lanes ran the full length of two deck fwd to aft. The Slugs came out through NBCD proof hatches on the AX Deck. This was above the Marines Messdeck and the Laundry. When they went off they burnt the paint of the AX and the mounting. A Buffers night mare and the AX part of ships ratings eternal job to clean up and re paint the AX Deck

Sea Dart was only fitted to the CVH's at build, Type 82 (Bristol) fitted aft and Type 45 fitted fwd . On the 45's and the others the magazine was below the mounting it was a vertical loading system.

Chaff dispensers were the six barrel variety trained inboard to load and traversed outboard to dispense.

If your going big gun you could look at the twin 3" mounting as fitted to Blake and Tiger.

the 4.5 Mk8 was HA/LA capable as was its predecessor the MK6 as fitted DDG And Frigates. Mk 7 were never produced as they were intended for the next generation of carriers that were never produced.

The Single MK 5 Mod 1 mounting open back was a single 4.5" mounting originally designed to replace the aged 4.7 although lower calibre it actually was heavier and packed more of a punch. Fitted to the Tribal Class Frigates open backed mounting

Big gun wise the 6" twin mountings from Blake and Tiger would suffice. If your going big gun then maybe look at Vanguards fit.She carried 15" main armament with QF 5.25 inch Mark 1 gun mountings.

Any Questions on weapon fits from the 70's and 80's I can help a wee bit.

Edited March 27, 2013 by chuckb1

[John Day]

Hmmm, got me thinking !!!! The only thing I could think of was the Mobile Airbase concept but this was in the 90s and was over 6000ft long

John

[pigsty]

Does it have to be UK gear, or even ship-based? With a hull 3500 feet long you could fit anything you wanted (and it's tempting to say that the best naval AA weapon of the 1970s, which would fit that size, is probably the F-14). But your options must surely include Standard, Sea Sparrow, Rapier, and Roland.

[Giorgio N]

If you are interested in systems from any country, in the '70s the most common western AA missile systems were the Sea Sparrow for short range defence and the Standard MR missile for medium range (more in the SM1 version than the SM2, that only arrived at the end of the decade).

Deciding what the best was is difficult and some consider the soviet SAM systems to have been overall better than the western ones...

Staying with western systems, the Sea Sparrow would have been better than the SeaCat. The Aspide was a bit better than the Sparrow but arrived late in the decade.

For longer range missiles, I don't know if there's much to choose between Sea Dart and Standard, with both having pros and cons. The ER version of the standard could also be considered, although the Sea Dart's range was not much smaller. The Standard launcher had however the advantage of being able to launch the Asroc missile as well, and having some sort of defence against submarines is not a bad idea.

AA artillery should not be forgotten and most ships of the day had dual purpose guns.The best of these were probably the Italian built Oto 127/54 and especially the 76/62, as shown by the good export success of the 127 and the incredible success of the 76. The 76 in particular could also be used for close range AA defence thanks to a high ROF.

The Bofors 40 mm would also sure have room in a 1970's ship regardless of the presence of larger caliber guns.

In your case, it would depend on what your ship is for. The size allows the use of long range missiles, so the Standard ER could be used. However if your ship operates with an escort, it would be more likely to have the escorts armed with this weapon and use short range weapons only (like the sea sparrow) on the ship.

Same for the guns: if you have big guns like the 16", there's probably no need for the 127 while the 76 could be used for AA duties and against small crafts. Unless you really need a gun capable to be used for shore bombardment that is not as large as the 16", but in that case a gun in the 152 or 155 class would be better IMHO. The 127 is a good dual role compromise, but it's a tad smaller than ideal for bombardment (as shown by the continuous research into larger caliber guns going on in the US).

[mrvr6]

im planning on putting 4 28" ish turrets on it and obviously stacks of aa armerment

[phildagreek]

Don't forget Matelots with SLRs & GPMGs & the poor old bunting tosser shining the 15 inch signal projector right at low level incoming.