spitfire Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Looking back on my notes I found this link, I wonder how far the restoration has got now ? The original underside colour certainly looks different from most interpretations http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1197.0 Cheers Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Looking back on my notes I found this link, I wonder how far the restoration has got now ? The original underside colour certainly looks different from most interpretations http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1197.0 Cheers Dennis To me it looks very close to the color Nr 342 in the pic John Thompson posted above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Following the advice above, I went looking for Revell 87 but my local shop now only stocks the Aqua versions rather than the enamels. I'm not sure of the effect of having three colours enamel and one acrylic, nor did I have matches for the other VVS colours in Revell range (assuming there actually are any). Are Revell abandoning their enamel range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 According to the charts Humbrol 29 Matt Dark Earth is a match for Revell 87. http://ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_revell.htm Cheers Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) I just followed the link to the build article. The Pactra renditions of AMT-11 and -12 look quite good to my eye. However, I'm coming up totally empty trying to locate any commercial reference online. Any idea where to look? Pip Yeah, me too - my suspicion was that this series of paints is only available in Europe, but if so, Hannants doesn't seem to stock it. I'm still looking... Looking back on my notes I found this link, I wonder how far the restoration has got now ? The original underside colour certainly looks different from most interpretations http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1197.0 The original colour (the darker one in the photo of the stabilizer undersides) is AMT-7, with chips for comparison - the first is from the charts on sovietwarplanes.com; the second shows Akan chips of the three main AMT colours for fighters from 1943 and later: FS25190 is an approximation: http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=25190 John Edited February 5, 2013 by John Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yeah, me too - my suspicion was that this series of paints is only available in Europe, but if so, Hannants doesn't seem to stock it. I'm still looking... The original colour (the darker one in the photo of the stabilizer undersides) is AMT-7, with chips for comparison - the first is from the charts on sovietwarplanes.com; the second shows Akan chips of the three main AMT colours for fighters from 1943 and later: John Actually, I found a site that stocks the stuff: http://www.model-making.eu/catalog/Pactra-115301.html?start=3 The only VVS colors in the line appear to be AMT-1, 7, 11 and 12; they're currently out of stock for AMT-12 (Patcra A108). Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Actually, I found a site that stocks the stuff: http://www.model-making.eu/catalog/Pactra-115301.html?start=3 The only VVS colors in the line appear to be AMT-1, 7, 11 and 12; they're currently out of stock for AMT-12 (Patcra A108). Pip Thanks, Pip - I took a look, and apparently AMT-12 is back in stock again. Note that AMT-7 (Pactra A109) is misidentified as "AMT-17". John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The AMT-7, -11, and -12 look pretty good. That AMT-1 though is really dark, and that goes with the name - Dark Earth Brown. That should be a tannish colour; I'm interested enough in how it looks in person to maybe buy a bottle and test it. Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The AMT-7, -11, and -12 look pretty good. That AMT-1 though is really dark, and that goes with the name - Dark Earth Brown. That should be a tannish colour; I'm interested enough in how it looks in person to maybe buy a bottle and test it. Regards, Jason Yes, I felt the same way. The AMT-1 to me isn't such a big deal since there are other viable avenues, but I'm thinking it'll be worth getting a bottle each of the 7-11-12 trio. Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Ouch! I just went to the website and started to order 5 or 6 bottles of paint, total value between $8 and $9. Priority overseas shipping is over $30. Economy shipping is over $21, and they warn you that it could take 3 months or more. I backed out of the order. I'm interested in the paints, but not that interested. Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Ouch! I just went to the website and started to order 5 or 6 bottles of paint, total value between $8 and $9. Priority overseas shipping is over $30. Economy shipping is over $21, and they warn you that it could take 3 months or more. I backed out of the order. I'm interested in the paints, but not that interested. Pip The exact same thing happened to me, Pip. I don't exactly like paying over twice what the merchandise costs for shipping. I still want to try these paints, so I'll let you know if I find a less costly avenue. Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Email the firm - they may be prepared to do a deal for you. They may not but it is worth asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Just tried to order some paints as well, the paints came to £12 but the shipping was £18 (to the UK), so I passed ! Just to qualify this, if I knew the paints were accurate and if I knew the paints airbrushed well I might have gone ahead and purchased them, like everyone else I tend to buy AM decals, resin and other bits and bobs, so why not splash out for paint that is accurate and is easy to airbrush. However I could not find a review (accuracy, coverage, thinning etc) for the paints so I would not fork out that much just for an experiment. Cheers Dennis Edited February 6, 2013 by spitfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Add me to the "Started to Order but Balked at the Overseas Shipping Cost" list - $31 for airmail to Canada, for three bottles of paint worth less than $6? Sorry - no deal... I had no idea postage costs in Poland were so high! John (Now, having said that, I do know that some on-line hobby shops throw up a rather steep shipping cost when you place an order just to have a number in the system for the outfit actually handling the money transfer, with the understanding that your real charge for shipping will be less, usually much less, and you will not be billed for the higher amount. Bit of a leap of faith, but it's always worked for me. As Christopher suggests, an e-mail to them might result in a more favourable cost.) Edited February 6, 2013 by John Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Just for interest I made up some new chips, white plastic 2cm square and one coat of paint, it reinforces a lot of the information that is in this thread, Humbrol 79 and 32 (a tad lighter though) are good matches for the AKAN AMT-11 and 12, and the AKAN AMT-7 seems to match the undersides of the French Yak, this is purely relying on the old eyes, for AMT-7 I want to track down some Humbrol 89 and see how that compares to the AKAN AMT-7. Cheers Dennis Edited February 6, 2013 by spitfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Well done, Dennis - thank you for that! John PS - Your thinking is correct - Humbrol 89 is a very good match for Akan acrylic AMT-7. Edited February 6, 2013 by John Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) It looks like if I want to duplicate the AKAN colours, I should use black for AMT-12 and Gunship Gray for AMT-11! Right now, I'm using Gunship Gray for AMT-12, and Medium Gray for AMT-11. I've just painted an La-5F (the infamous AML kit, which I found to be rather a nice kit, actually) in Gunship Gray and Medium Gray and I have to say they do look a little light, but I still think those AKAN colours are very dark. Regards, Jason P.S. For what it's worth, I just today received the top part of an Il-2 fin in the mail, complete with the original colours. Although this fin is ~68 years old, the AMT-12 does not look black, but more like MM Gunship Gray. Of course there's the age, possible fadeing, possible darkening, etc., so take that as you will. Now the AMT-4 looks about like what I expected, however; a medium green with some olive in it. AMT-12 and AMT-4 are different colours, of course, so how they react to exposure and ageing could be very different. Edited February 6, 2013 by Learstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I'm looking at Model Master RAF Ocean Grey as an avenue to AMT-11. It's got the bluishness; might have to be darkened a tad. I personally think 36118 is too light and too violet for AMT-12. My plan is to replicate the scalemodels.ru (sp?) formula of 1 part MM Russian Topside Blue and 1 part black. Just FWIW, which may be not much. Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I'm looking at Model Master RAF Ocean Grey as an avenue to AMT-11. It's got the bluishness; might have to be darkened a tad. I personally think 36118 is too light and too violet for AMT-12. My plan is to replicate the scalemodels.ru (sp?) formula of 1 part MM Russian Topside Blue and 1 part black. Just FWIW, which may be not much. Pip 1 part MM Russian Topside Blue and 1 part black - I may have to try that. I certainly have both colours. I'll also take a look at Ocean Grey. Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Here is the latest version of the chips, the Humbrol 89 is a good match for the AKAN AMT-7 but seems to lack some green, but it's the closest that I have found, I also had a play with AMT-1, I do not have the AKAN paint for this but looking at various posts it seems that Revell 87 is a match, I could not get hold of the Revell paint but the Humbrol equivalent H29 looks like the AKAN chip, it might depend on how much milk you have in your coffee.. While I was messing about I also tried Ocean Grey for AMT-11, but it appears to be too blue, but when I tried WEM Colourcoats French pre 1945 Gris Fonce WEMCC ACF05 I found that it was a perfect match for the AKAN AMT-11, unfortunately the WEM website has it out of stock ! And the ACF05 just above the AKAN AMT-11 chip The AMT-1 row Cheers Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 H29? You mean that Russian aircraft really were painted dark green and dark earth? I thought people had spent decades denying that? Descriptions involving the word "tan" certainly drive me towards a lighter shade than H29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) The greenishness is probably from yellowing binder. On the linked image to the tailplane the revealed original paint seems to have two distinct hues, one lighter and one slightly more greenish, but it is unknown what cleaning, if any, has taken place. It is typical for paint "sealed" away from light to darken and yellow slightly, so light blues would have a tendency towards a darker appearance of slight greenishness or turquoise. 89 looks a pretty good way to represent the original brighter paint with Humbrol. For the same reason an old green paint surface stored away from light will often appear slightly more olive than the original... Thermal ageing of a paint surface (yellowing, weakening, cracking) refers to chemical decay processes that are not driven by UV light exposure (although sometimes initiated by a little UV), but which occur even in the dark at room temperature. Central heating tends to increase the effect. Glyptal was a trade name for alkyd paints of compounds of glycerol and phthalic acid, one of the earliest forms of alkyd. Pentaphtal was likewise a trade name for a pentaerythritol and phtalic anhydride compound, a combination more usually associated with wood varnishes. It would be interesting to know whether the use of these two paints was specific to metal and wood surfaces respectively. Nick Edited February 8, 2013 by Nick Millman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlanceHR Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 For those of you looking for Pactra paints in Europe, the only place I ever saw them was Poland, and I bought some a few years ago from Radek of www.models.karaya.pl The best source for AKAN seems to be a Greek guy on eBay, shipping was reasonable 8Eur from Greece to Croatia. Vedran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdk Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Hello, today I was able to compare Humbrol 29 and Revell 87. They are indeed very different colours. Humbrol 29 is much redder than Revell 87,which is more a grayish brown with some red. As with most Revell colours it is a connection to RAL. Compared with the RAL K5 colour fan it matched to RAL 7006 Beigegrau. I was not able to find a FS colour in the 1989 595B standart matching the Revell paint. In my JPMA colour fan the nearst matches are C19-50B, Munsell 10YR5/1, but it lacks a little bit red and C19-40B, Munsell 10YR4/1 wich is to dark. All the comparasions are done in daylight and with my eyes. Hope this help a little, Claus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Thanks for that Claus, I will have to track down some Revell 87 then. Cheers Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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