Alleycat vs Trumpeter DH Vampire FB9 build-off, calling bloodsucker fans! Now with added Trumpeter-ness!

[gingerbob]

I would have thought you'd call him Katie. And who's this Max fellow with the nads?

bob

[John Aero]

Near As Dammit ) or for Goverment work.

John

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Right- Mortimer, we're back in business!

Zee canopy: You will recall the weird flared fairing shape on the back? Fortunately its solid so can be cut and sanded back to make something thats more prototypical, still not right as the fairing is too long, but that will require a new canopy. Anyhoo...

The resultant de-lengthenizationalising of the canopy means the cockpit aperture needs shortening at its rear edge too. Some plasticard is cut to shape, stuck into position then the top sanded to match the fuselage contour...

Finally - here's some pics of the Trumpy booms - with the corrected rudder fin shape, plus the random panel lines in the rudders have been filled, sanded and then spot primed

And a pic of the Trumpy underside now both wheel wells have been "flanged"

In the meantime, in one of the most arduous bits of modelling ever undertaken, 4 parts of the Alleycat kit went together in , Oh 5 minutes, to get to here:

A bit of filling was needed at the boom wing underside join, and to fair in the tailplane to boom joins, but nothing special.

And so onwards and boomwards....

Jonners

[gingerbob]

Yes, it went together quickly- but haven't you forgotten something?

bob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Yes, it went together quickly- but haven't you forgotten something?

bob

Doh - the undercarriage!

Jonners

Just give me a weekend dear....

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

This mornings activities will, to paraphrase the great Nigel Tufnell ask the question, " Vampire cockpits, I mean how much more black can they be?"

However, I've also been looking at the Trumpy intakes. Now theres little that can be dont about the slight lack in height short of major surgery, and I want to suggest ways which the model can be improved without resort to "zee saw of death", so here's what I'm thinking....

as they fit the intakes to my eye at any rate, seem to angle down too much- giving an almost Venom like appearance. They are also a little narrow width wise ( again because I think Trumpy have compensated for the wide fuselage).

So what I'm doing is this: the width will be increased buy attached a piece of plasticard to the inside edge of the intakes - this also thickens up the intake fuselage fairing. A little sliver of wing needs removing outboard of the intake to compensate for this.

Along the top rear edge of the intake piece where it meets the wing, I'm cutting this back by about 1mm. The bottom stays as is, and the attachment peg needs removing for some wiggle room.

Now when the intake is matched up to the wing the effect is to tilt everything up slightly. This gives the intake more apparent "gape" when viewed from head on, makes the intake angle when viewed in profile more vertical, and visually stops the intake fairing from pointing downwards.

As soon as Ive finished one intake - pics will follow , which hopefully will explain better. So far I think this little mod, is making a big difference to how the modle looks. Its not a 100% "accurizationaling" fix, its more of a fooling the eye trick.

TBC

Jonners

[gingerbob]

I think I get it, but I hope you'll do a "before and after" comparison for this mod. And how 'bout a head-on shot of the Alley Cat intake, too?

I like that headless Vampire- it looks like some sort of mod wine opener or something!

bob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hi Bob - here you go.

Blue arrows show the shim in the inside edge of the intake, the area on the wing that needs removing, and then the top of the intake rear edge which is removed to tilt the intake up.

Heres the Alleycat head on:

and the trumpy one, with modified intak eon left hand side, and as per the kit on right hand side. Can you see what I mean about the intake having more "gape" now?

Finally side views:

Modified

Unmodified

What do you think?

Jonners

PS Alas the Trumpy body wont quite fit over a wine bottle neck - believe me I tried!!

[gingerbob]

That last shot really brings out the bat in the Vampire.

Hmm... what do I think? I think we're right back to the problem I had with the CA one- that no matter what I tried, I was basically moving around inconsistencies- there were just too many problems and it wasn't just a matter of fixing one element to bring things into harmony. I also still think when the price is right I'm going to get one (Trump) so I can see what the prospects are for a Frankenvamp with a CA kit, just as an intellectual exercise. If all else fails I'll close my eyes and pretend it's just a model (but you and I know better!) To return to the subject at hand:

In some ways I think your mod does help. The head on certainly shows the contrast. But side on it seems that you've hurt the curve of the root-end where it meets the pod- the top is flatter. (Do you happen to have one of John's intakes made for the CA kit, for comparison?)

borrowing one of Tony's images from his thread on the Cold War page:

Perhaps it is just that I've focused especially on the relationship between pod, intake, and wing, but that root fairing is a strong visual feature to me. The Trumpeter part seems too flat (linear) on the bottom side, and I wonder if it isn't too long- a little too "pointy". Note how the fairing overlaps the angled panel line on the pod, whereas it should not cross that line. As I recall the same thing was true of the CA kit. This would also add to the perception of the intake being too narrow (top to bottom).

Is there also a bit too much dihedral on the Trumpeter kit? This could affect the relationship between the line of the leading edge and the intake opening.

bob

Edited March 2, 2013 by gingerbob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Righty ho - a bit more work on those intakes. basically I've filled in the concave shape of the fairing a little and re shaped them. So now we have this:

They might still be abit long - judging from Bob's excellent point about the angled panel line above. So I need to make a decision on that.

In the meantime, I couldn't live with the cannon ports postions so I filled in the rearmost ones and drilled new ones lower and more foreward. The front ports have been opened up a little too:

cheers

Jonners

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Just painting up the cockpits - can anyone confirm the seat colour? black or is it in that tan brown "plastic" colour

Cheers

jonners

[David H]

Jon, i don't know much about Vampires, but i did build the Heller kit a long time ago and i had the 48th scale Hobbycraft Vampire shaped thing.

Seems Trumpeters front end has the same circular cross section and wide-ish forward fuselage that the Hobbycraft kit had. Is it an improvement over the Hobbycraft kit? Seems to me the Ali cat forward fuselage has a better cross section.

On an unrelated note, did you see that 32nd scale RF-8 conversion over at Kitmaniac.com?? Best. RF. Ever.

Onwards and upwards,

david

[gingerbob]

If you Google "Vampire cockpit" and then view images you'll see several with the "reddish" seats, though the two I looked at big were for an F.3 [add an FB.5 to that]. I doubt they'd have changed. For example:

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Jon, i don't know much about Vampires, but i did build the Heller kit a long time ago and i had the 48th scale Hobbycraft Vampire shaped thing.

Seems Trumpeters front end has the same circular cross section and wide-ish forward fuselage that the Hobbycraft kit had. Is it an improvement over the Hobbycraft kit? Seems to me the Ali cat forward fuselage has a better cross section.

On an unrelated note, did you see that 32nd scale RF-8 conversion over at Kitmaniac.com?? Best. RF. Ever.

Onwards and upwards,

david

Hi David - no - but I just saw it. all i can say is WOW!!! abso-freeking-lutley lovely. I agree - he's nailed it. Mines in its box waiting for inspiration to re-strike, but , it will .

Re the Trumpy Vamp - it beats the Hobbycraft one easily as it does in fact just about "look like" a Vampire, whereas the HC model didnt even do that.

I keep seeing oyur fab USN work though mate, and am as ever totally impressed.

Jon

If you Google "Vampire cockpit" and then view images you'll see several with the "reddish" seats, though the two I looked at big were for an F.3 [add an FB.5 to that]. I doubt they'd have changed. For example:

Hi Bob - yeah the reason I asked was that I did google but couldnt quite find a shot like above - the nearest I got was a seat edge which looked brown, but then in BW pics the seat seemed tonally and lustre wise to match the surrounding pit, so thank you for going the extra mile on that google search.

Brown adds a splash of colur to the hole, and with some blue seat belts ( my personal postwar RAF affectation, cus I seen em once) that should liven up the 'pit. Now its back to "50 Shades of Black" for the rest of the pit, but I'll leave out the riding crop

cheers

Jonners

[gingerbob]

Hey, I didn't say Google was your friend. I figured you'd have tried, but I was just showing my 'method'.

Seems like the riding crop would have been in the T.11, n'est-ce pas?

bob

[Norman]

Jonners

I am enjoying this thread good to see someone actually using modelling skills to fix problem area's in a kit

Can't help wondering where the people who criticised the Kits over 18 or so pages are though ? pretty easy to sit at the computer and pontificate but another to actually put a fix into play

Keep posting

Cheers

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Jonners

I am enjoying this thread good to see someone actually using modelling skills to fix problem area's in a kit

Can't help wondering where the people who criticised the Kits over 18 or so pages are though ? pretty easy to sit at the computer and pontificate but another to actually put a fix into play

Keep posting

Cheers

Hi Norman - cheers for the reply. To be fair - I did say I would do this build off, and see how good / bad the model was; so maybe they are waiting for the results too?

Just as an update - both cockpits paint up very well - though as one might expect - the Alley cat resin 'pit oozes detail, with a lovely well detailed seat, and PE harness, whereas Trumpeter's sidewall detail is shallower, but still busy, and still reasonably accurate too, though their seat is a simplified and you have to add your own belts. Where the resin Alley cat pit hits home is on the throttle quadrant - nicely big with a decent trim wheel on the end of it, and some PE levers to boot. Trumpy fumble the ball here with a low bas-relief effort moulded into the side wall - a separate piece would have made more sense, and its big enough to do in IM too

Trumpeter's instrument panel decal matches their plastic panel perfectly, with the instruments conforming down into the shallow recesses very well. It needs then to have the infantile white panel demarcation lines removed, but its a good start. Alley Cat give you a far better defined instrument panel, but leave you to add your own instrument details. A decal or decals to drop into these would have been a good call here I think - to round off an excellent cockpit package.

A little more painting, and its time for some "cockpics" ooh err.

Jonners

[Norman]

Jonners

Thanks and like i said keep posting !

Cheers

[gingerbob]

Awright Jonners, it's the weekend again- where's our fix? (Incidentally, I've now leaped forward with my Hasegawa Hurricane build- aside from cutting several parts off the sprues (and finger in the process, as usual), I've glued the two nose halves to their respective fuselage halves. I guess it is now officially a Mk.II! Oh, and glopped a bit of Mr Surfacer into the inexcusable mold-marks in the wheel well.)

bob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Awright Jonners, it's the weekend again- where's our fix? (Incidentally, I've now leaped forward with my Hasegawa Hurricane build- aside from cutting several parts off the sprues (and finger in the process, as usual), I've glued the two nose halves to their respective fuselage halves. I guess it is now officially a Mk.II! Oh, and glopped a bit of Mr Surfacer into the inexcusable mold-marks in the wheel well.)

bob

here you are dear. Progess slowed this week due to work, but cockpit decorating is in full swing.

Alleycat - the shoulder straps will be added later, as Im going for a relaxed, draped outside the pit look.

Trumpy - the IP decal needs overpainting to get rid the white lines, and a few spare etch levers will be added form the Alleycat kit too

cheers

Jonners

[gingerbob]

here you are dear. Progess slowed this week due to work, but cockpit decorating is in full swing.

Alleycat - the shoulder straps will be added later, as Im going for a relaxed, draped outside the pit look.

Ta, Luv! Like your seatbelt notion- the old "one strap off the shoulder look". If you're wanting to liven up the pits a bit, you might look at the cockpit shots again (there's a thread on 'Cold War', too). It rather looks as if the floor might have shown something other than black? (was it plywood?)

bob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Ta, Luv! Like your seatbelt notion- the old "one strap off the shoulder look". If you're wanting to liven up the pits a bit, you might look at the cockpit shots again (there's a thread on 'Cold War', too). It rather looks as if the floor might have shown something other than black? (was it plywood?)

bob

yeah, I pondered that - I assumed it was just scuffed to the point of bare wood. technically, I think my shoulder straps should follow an Empire Line, wot?

Jonners

[Navy Bird]

Holy Frijole!

I thought the Trumpy Lightning was bad - I dare say this one might be a wee bit worse. But it certainly looks like you have it under control. It makes me wonder what Trumpy does for research before they cut the moulds, and no, I don't want to start another big thread about that. But it really makes me shake my head...

Cheers,

Bill

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Gut Morgen!!

Right I wont bore you with the rest of the cockpit- suffice to say they both fit. I've started to think Trumpy may have their rear bulkhead too far back, but i digress on this, and will come back to it.

Both models' airframes are now fully built. Trumpeter's fits superbly, even allowing for the nose job and intake-ectomy. Alley cats nose to main body fit is good, but I did need to use some filler to make both parts match in terms of fuselage shape where they meet. Other than that the Alley cat parts slot together.

So here you can see the two ladies together, sans tape for the first time:

Alley Cat in the left in the top shot

Alley cat with PRU blue tailplane in the bottom shot, betraying its intended scheme....

The wingtip and main wheel bay shape fixes to the Trumpeter kit really make a difference to my eyes, as does the narrowing of the nose shape too - The apparent fuselage width difference twixt the 2 models is very clear in the top shot, as is the relative sizes of cockpit apertures.

A little bit of panel line restoration is next, some clear wingtip lights for Trumpy's model , and then its time to prime.

Apols for the delay since the last post: Life.

Cheers

Jonners

[Tim T]

Is it just me (or it could be the camera angle) but the Alley Cat one looks like a Vampire, whilst Trumpie's effort seems to have been on the pies. Seeing them together in the bare plastic makes it very obvious that Trumpie cocked up.