Airfix Chipmunk T.10 1/72

[feifeitim]

Wise words WAFU couldn't agree more.

[Col.]

Though your Dad's reaction is understandable, he wasn't being fair...no aircraft, however historic or wonderful, is worth the death of a pilot. It's only a machine, when all is said and done, however much we all love them.

What I remember of the initial news reports were simply footage of the aircraft diving almost verticaly into the sea following "undercarriage problems" and it was only days later we discovered the efforts made by the pilot to recover the machine with either u/c up or down. Strange to think how long it could take for information to become available in the days prior to widespread internet access.

Sorry to derail your thread yet again Steve. I really ought to begin building a Sea Fury so you can return the favour with talk of another type of your choice.

[Miggers]

Wise words indeed WAFU,unfortunately you're absolutely correct.

Poor old Beattie didn't have much luck at all with the HF's Sea Furries though did he.

And yes,it was a hydraulic pipe that burst with TF956,I remember reading the crash report somewhere

and also yes,he tried every trick in the book to get the uplock to release so that he could have had a bash

at getting her down,but as we all now know,it was to no avail and the old girl went into Oggin after Beatts

had jumped overboard.

With WG though,it was the Centuarus doing it's usual trick and seizing up on him.

He had no chance but to put it into the nearest field on its belly before the whole shebang

caught fire.

Unfortunately said field contained some mighty English Oaks..........................

[Sten Ekedahl]

A local guy here in the bay area has mastered and sells (I think) a nice resin cockpit for your airplane, Obscureco is the company and I believe has a web site. I'm told they have quite good service.

I have that resin cockpit set. It is a work of art!

http://www.obscureco.com/product_pages/OBS72003/OBS72003.html

If unavailable, Pavla also produces a resin pit fot the JP5.

http://www.pavlamodels.cz/katalogy/detail.php?k=cockpits&c=C72097&styl=styly.css

Pavla does some good stuff, but in this case the Obscureco set is a clear winner - hands down.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Sten Ekedahl

[Roland Pulfrew]

Steve

Not your course I know, but have you seen this?

Must be some names and faces here you recognise if you were the course behind. Sadly I don't recognise any of them bar "Dumper" (we ended up on Nimrods together) as before my time at Fenton.

[Fritag]

Steve

Not your course I know, but have you seen this?

Must be some names and faces here you recognise if you were the course behind. Sadly I don't recognise any of them bar "Dumper" (we e.

Awesome. No never seen that Roland. Talk about ringing some bells though.

I was on 57 IOT for officer training at Cranwell- the course behind these guys - and as you say the course behind these guys at Church Fenton. They were on 1 squadron at CF and we on 11 course were on 2 squadron.

I recognise all the faces but don't 'know' most of them because they went seperate ways on different a/c. Dumper of course is very recogniseable. Glenn Mason was on Buccs at lossiemouth so I saw something of him.

Abbo I know very well - we were on the same squadron on Jags. We were 'cubs' (junior first tourists) together and later he became the squadron Instrument Rating Examiner when I was the QWI and we flew together in the T Bird several times as well as goodness knows how many times in the same formation.

The footage at the beginning of the pilot tests at Biggin Hill looks so dated! feel old.

Thanks for posting that Roland.

Steve

[Glen]

That's really impressive. I like the background song 'I'm a military pilot lets talk about me....' Nick Stein was a QFI at METS in 89. He arrived just as I finished the course. I did an airways trip up to Teeside with him and remember being fascinated watching the de icing boots clearing the wings!

Steve, the RAF in their wisdom will even let drivers of the pointy things claim taxy time. The form I've got in my log book has: Fixed Wing Training /Fast Jets 10 minutes, Multi Engine Transport 15 minutes, Display Flying 5 mins, Wheeled Helo Airfield Ops 5 mins, Wheeled Helos Field ops/Skidded Helos/ Aircraft Carrier ops nil. I left the RAF with about 2500 hours and gained another 300 ish with taxi time.

Cheers

Glen

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Well those official numbers just show what a totally arbitrary load of nonsense it is; you try ground taxying a Sea King from dispersal onto the main runway at Culdrose in 2.5 minutes - not possible (even at the "fast walking pace" that we all used that was actually about Usain Bolt speed!)

Clearly I should revise my log book!

[Glen]

I agree! 15 minutes is nothing for a heavy either. I suppose it's better than nothing or the hassle of running two log books.

[Work In Progress]

How glad you must all be that in civilian life you simply log the actual brakes off to brakes on time, i.e. the time in which you are in command of a moving aeroplane for the purposes of flight, rather than muck about with all these spurious and tedious calculations.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Work In Progress

[Fritag]

Thing is you see.

Being brought up as a young lad who'd only ever flown with the RAF it sort of seemed logical to me that your hours were your flying hours. The only log book I'd seen was the RAF one and the columns are unambiguously titled 'Day Flying' - 'Night Flying - 'Flight Time' etc.

So you see this concept of being allowed to claim time on the ground in control of an aircraft was all new and took a bit of getting used to. After all - that's driving not piloting isn't it? What's more you're steering with your feet (least ways in anything I've ever flown - don't your big jets have itty bitty steering wheels?).

Anyroad up - who am I to complain - my 124 hours 25 minutes in JPs now gets increased by 10 mins a sortie x 133 sorties = 1,330 minutes = 22 hours 10 minutes. So that's 146 hours 35 minutes including driving time!

PS. I've already edited this twice to correct my arithmetic. Please say I've got it right this time....

Edited August 5, 2013 by Fritag

[Roland Pulfrew]

How glad you must all be that in civilian life you simply log the actual brakes off to brakes on time, i.e. the time in which you are in command of a moving aeroplane for the purposes of flight, rather than muck about with all these spurious and tedious calculations.

But then that's not 'flying' time is it Mind you, with well over 5000 actual airborne hours I have a few to claim to convert mil hours to civvie hours. And considering a lot of my time is on Bulldogs, with lots of very short sorties, that's a lot of taxi time

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Does my time taxying around the Dummy Deck at Culdrose count? I was grounded for 3 weeks in 1987 after an operation on my sinuses (cos obviously the pressure difference is immense at 200' in a Sea King...). Thought I'd get a bit of loafing time, but the Boss sent me across to to the School of Aircraft Handling to taxy aircraft for baby Chock-heads / Roofrats to marshall over the side etc. I got to taxy a Sea Hawk, and an ancient Harrier (might even have been a Kestrel; they certainly had one for a while).

That was definitely driving, not flying, though I was (just about) in control of an aircraft...

[For those who don't know, there was - probably still is - a concrete carrier deck on the least-used taxy-way at CU, where they trained handlers].

Edited August 6, 2013 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Miggers]

See,ChockHeads/Roofrats,I know what you're on about mate

[Stramash]

Awesome. No never seen that Roland. Talk about ringing some bells though.

I was on 57 IOT for officer training at Cranwell- the course behind these guys - and as you say the course behind these guys at Church Fenton. They were on 1 squadron at CF and we on 11 course were on 2 squadron.

I recognise all the faces but don't 'know' most of them because they went seperate ways on different a/c. Dumper of course is very recogniseable. Glenn Mason was on Buccs at lossiemouth so I saw something of him.

Abbo I know very well - we were on the same squadron on Jags. We were 'cubs' (junior first tourists) together and later he became the squadron Instrument Rating Examiner when I was the QWI and we flew together in the T Bird several times as well as goodness knows how many times in the same formation.

The footage at the beginning of the pilot tests at Biggin Hill looks so dated! feel old.

Thanks for posting that Roland.

Steve

I was on 16 course at Church Fenton - did I see John Boxer feature briefly on one of the stills?

[Roland Pulfrew]

I was on 16 course at Church Fenton

Stramash, that means you were my senior course (albeit on a different Sqn); were you involved in turning our double/secondary glazing in 3 Hangar into a fish tank, or was that 14 course?

[Stramash]

Stramash, that means you were my senior course (albeit on a different Sqn); were you involved in turning our double/secondary glazing in 3 Hangar into a fish tank, or was that 14 course?

P

Don't think it was 16, but then again, it wa such a long time ago, I couldn't really be sure!

[robvulcan]

Found this thread late but WOW what stunning work this is. I really must get some crystal clear ! and try out some of your techniques. Amazing work. Love the chipmunk too.

Cheers Rob

[Fritag]

Thanks Rob ,

I always enjoy your builds - and your posts go down a treat with my morning coffee. Glad you liked the chippie.

Course - I can't match your output!

Steve

[Zone19]

Mid-Air October 1985. I won't say any more about it because only I walked away from it. Jag buffs or those familiar with the Ejection-history.org.uk site will know the one.

Bloody Hell...A real live member of the MB Club!!! I hope you bought the Armourers a crate!

[Fritag]

I hope you bought the Armourers a crate!

Oh yes. And they gave me the seat pan handle mounted on a bit of wood.

Challenging for the seat. Low level mid air. Two swings in the chute and then plop into the dirt. Early mk 9 seat. The main chute withdrawal line was fire damaged (me too in a minor & temporary way) and IIRC the later mk 9 seats didn't have exposed withdrawal lines.

Gotta love MB.......there to help out a 22 yr old dim witted Flying Officer.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Fritag

[wyverns4]

Ok. Line shooting warning!

Thread drift and nothing to do with my Chipmunk (sorry Mods). Sat in Caffe Nero in rainy Leeds - had a morning fix of BM. Time to kill before having to do some work later. Here's a few photo's.

I was lucky enough to get over a thousand hours on Jags - enormous fun - and a bit sweaty at times. Loads of hours at 250' - 450kts at low level (480kts on the target run) and plenty of hours at 100' in the OLF areas (2 ships, 4 ships, 8 ships, 12 ships etc) . Got out to Canada and the US for the major Nato exercise (Maple Flag, Red Flag as well) flying across the atlantic in a Jag (no autopilot - no toilet!), air to air refueling from a victor, was something everyone wanted to do - but only once! thereafter it was more comfortable to be in the VC10 and let someone else fly the Jag. Lucky enough to do the QWI course and TLP as well.

Jags were allowed to cruise faster than every one else at low level (most others went at 420kts) cos we only had little engines so took more time to accelerate.

I also did low level Night Vision Goggle (NVG) flying, which was 500' at night looking through green tinged binoculars. Didn't have anything fancy like forward looking infrared or TF radar (like tornado) in those days. We wos men! We had to highlight the power lines on the map and pull up when we knew we were getting close to them because you couldn't see the wires through the goggles. They used to blackout the airfield when we were flying NVG because the airfield lights overwhelmed the goggles. The internal cockpit lights had to be covered in green filters for the same reason.

We also did regular air to air combat, mostly among ourselves, mostly for handling practice and mostly just 1v1. The Jag had a very respectable 8g limit (if you were going fast enough). It also had a 17 degree angle of attack limit and the wing never stalled as such (swept wing aerodynamics) if you went past 17 alpha then at some point the wing blanked the tail and the Jag departed from controlled flight and that was that - you couldn't get it back and you jumped out. Most 1v1s end in a slow speed flat or rolling scissors (nonsensical in a real situation but huge fun) and so you either stuck by the rules at 17 alpha and lost or you went beyond 17 alpha (and put the flaps down) and convinced yourself that you were the best pilot around and you were the man who would be able to spot that the Jag was just about to depart - before it departed- and stop it. It was like being in a tumble drier the amount of shaking and buffeting as you tried to go slower than, and manouver behind, your oppo. Or so I was told - I of course never went beyond 17 alpha or put the flaps down! I also never knew anyone lose it and have to eject for that matter so maybe we were professional (enough).

I was lucky enough on the QWI course to do some more extensive air combat including 1v1v1 against a Tornado F3 and a Mirage F1; and 2+2 v 4 (2 Jags and 2 F3's vs 4 F15's). I have to say that a Jag vs an F15 in a dogfight ain't really fair. Also when you play the tapes back the yanks always sound really cool over the radio and the brits always sound like squeaky school boys - or maybe that was just me.

Later on I was lucky enough to do an exchange on F16s (although the tour was truncated) and was able to get my own back a bit on F15s.

I actually wanted to fly Lightnings - and even got posted to Lightning after TWU at Chivenor but whilst I was waiting to do my first T5 trip at Binbrook some b****r landed one and the u/c collapsed. As I remember things it was going to take months to get the T5's cleared for flight again - so young Fritag got moved on to Phantoms - but he didn't want a Navigator so he managed to get a swop to Jags. This was quite ironic really as I'd spent a good deal of my time in the Hawk at Chivenor completely lost at Low Level and may not have got posted to a Jag squadron if I'd asked for it at that stage!

Anyways up. A few photos:

A clue as to a squadron I was on (me in the middle):

Something not many mudmovers got to do (Aim 9G). I was terrified I was going to f**k it up. As soon as it growled in my ear I let it go. God knows where it ended up. Sorry for the quality - no video in those days it was all wet film.

Pretty picture.

Some times you feel small. And you also wonder how long it takes a jumbo's wake turbulence to disappear. Which as I recall is longer than it takes for Athens ATC to demand that you stop whinging and take-off.

Scary moment

Why it's nice to have two engines.

And why we all love Martin Baker:

Mid-Air October 1985. I won't say any more about it because only I walked away from it. Jag buffs or those familiar with the Ejection-history.org.uk site will know the one.

Any road up. That was a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away as they say.

Line shoot over. Thread drift over. Time to go to work.

Cheers

Steve

Wow, Thats a blast from the past! I 'helped' pick up the pieces.

Christian the Married and exiled to africa

[Fritag]

Wow, Thats a blast from the past! I 'helped' pick up the pieces.

Christian the Married and exiled to africa

Now that's interesting. Small world. I got whisked away to Carlisle Hospital by the first passing Yellow helicopter; a Wessex and a Sea King both turned up - so maybe they had a race (we had lots of ASR helicopters in those days) and never really saw much of the crash site. I kinda just activated the emergency beacon, inflated my dinghy (not sure why in the middle of Cumbria - seemed a good idea at the time and it was after all daylgo orange) and sat and waited for the bollocking.......wasn't feeling very happy as I couldn't see another chute and I didn't think the other jag could have stayed airborne.

Can't remember now who gave me those photo's - but presumably someone close to the board of enquiry.

I suppose there were quite a lot of bits and pieces spread around a bit - I've often wondered if the two jets landed a long way apart or came down close together? I may have known at the time of the board - but if so I can't remember now.

Thanks for posting Christian - where did you put the bits?

[wyverns4]

Yes, the world seems to get smaller and smaller!

IIRC, (soooo many years ago and not a few unintentional early landings away from the airfield), we were off to go and do something skullduggery-ish for an exercise, in a Buzby (Chinook) and got retasked in mid flight (Hah, Typhoons think they are the original swing-role asset in the RAF). We were dropped off not long after you were picked up. There seemed to be every Yellow Bird in the service homing in on the general location for a good few hours after. We spent four days (IIRC!) 'assisting' the MRT, romping and yomping hither and thither marking debris with markers dropped off by a passing Puma(?) to be photographed by a PR.9, (his last flight was very, very low !) and warding off inquisitive types.

Again, IIRC, the debris field was quite localized, with some small fires still burning and the jets were not that far apart (again, IIRC ish). Sad day.

As to where the bits went, not the foggiest. Some bits disappeared in the back of another Buzzby and I think (IIRC!) some were lifted by another Puma(?) onto a lorry that was near-ish somewhere...

Hazzy, far-off days... Not helped by having just come back from a Year 9 trip to Longanot...

Christian the Married and exiled to africa, ex of God's finest (RAF Regiment)

Edited February 4, 2014 by wyverns4

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Surely the bits would have ended up in loose formation on the floor of the AIU hangar while they did the investigation (that's what always happened to RN broken aircraft, so I don't see why your mob would be any different).... and then mostly went into a skip once they'd gleaned everything they could.