Airfix Chipmunk T.10 1/72

[perdu]

Hmm I get it

my fault if it cocksup huh

Har har, before you take the masking off (please say you haven't yet) try to run your knife blade along the margin between mask and model just to keep the film from pulling apart as you demask

Gentle mind, not heavy handed. Only enough to take away any "purchase" the mask has on the paint film

She looks pretty near perfect, dont think I should have butted in, she'd have been right anyway...

JP next?

b

[Rod Blievers]

360KIAS sounds awful fast for an airliner

It was! Noisy too. Particularly below 20,000 ft, it really generated a lot of drag resulting in a profile of less than 2 miles / 1000 ft - so the destination was usually hidden under the nose most of the way down! There's a typo too, I meant to say M.89 not 0.98!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the canopy masking coming off, btw....

LongMan 2:

Also, there is 2x strength-plates/spreaders that can be seen through the rear portion of the canopy.

The forward, vaguely bone-shaped one with the lightening holes is a stiffening/bracing plate, the aft one, which is a paper thin "solid" plate but has no structural integeritry at all, is purely to protect the canopy latching mechasnism.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[Matcham11]

What an absolute mental build until now!! Only just found the thread today, and I do not know why I haven't found it before that! You have done an exeptional job on building this model! The details, and the effort and time put into it is absolutely amazing! Good luck with this one, I sure will be following! But if all of your kits are this good? I'm really looking forwards to seeing the models off all of the other planes you have flown! Job well done!

Robin

[Fritag]

There's a typo too, I meant to say M.89 not 0.98!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the canopy masking coming off, btw....

I believed you. Not half so impressed now

Hmm I get it

my fault if it cocksup huh

JP next?

b

Yep - all your fault

I've got a mini squadron of JPs in the attic. Aeroclub mk3 and mk5 - Heritage mk3 and Fly mk5. Also got the Airfix mk 5. I still bought a few kits even though I hadn't done any model making for years. I think I will have a go at a JP - it's been fun doing the chippie in 1/72 so I'm thinking at the moment I'll do the Airfix. That said. Chronologically I should do mk3 first. I think there's a resin mk 3 around but not an injection molded one? Oh - I don't know. Decisions - decisions....

On the other hand I've got a little resin 1/48 Cap10b from a french company - which I bought at Telford last year. It's still tiny - but I might do that next in the colours of the Cap10 I used to fly at Sherburn. There's only a few bits and it might be a good intro to resin.

Anyroad up. Just had time to take the masking off last night. Off to the Shetland Islands tomorow for a week's walking etc. so been busy at work and packing.

Here we are:

No creep to speak of so your off the hook Bill (great tip about the klear - never doubted you for a moment!)

Haven't had to to clean it up properly yet and as you can see there's a bit of sticky stuff from the Tamiya tape on the clear panels to clean up - not a problem with my trusty micromesh ona stick tool.

There is one thing though. See the bottom photo - forward clear panel on the port side. You can just see a vertical scratch. Wasn't there before I masked the canopy - I don't think - looks like a scalpel cut. But it's not a the edge of the panel and the only cutting I did with the scalpel was at the edges of the masking.

Don't understand. Not sure I can do anything about it. Might be able to polish it out a bit with micromesh? Don't know whether a dip in Klear will make things better or worse (I was planning to dip it in Klear again anyway). It's a pain because the canopy has survived the masking and painting as well as I could hope for.

Steve

[Work In Progress]

Don't try to sand it out, not in that material - it will only make it worse. A dip in Klear is your best bet but less done the better, apart from that.

Given that it is barely visible blown up to 3x actual size in your pic- in fact I am not really sure I can see it at all - it's really not worth worrying about.

Super job on the masking, by the way.

[Fritag]

Don't try to sand it out, not in that material - it will only make it worse. A dip in Klear is your best bet but less done the better, apart from that.

Cheers WIP. Much as I thought.

[Radleigh]

Really love the painting on this, top effort mate....!

[keefr22]

Chronologically I should do mk3 first. I think there's a resin mk 3 around but not an injection molded one? Oh - I don't know. Decisions - decisions....

CMR do a lovely resin JP3 Steve, and there is the old Airfix injection kit. Long oop & they used to fetch silly money on e-bay, but whether it was the release of the CMR kit or not, they did seem to have come down from the stratosphere a littlewhen I still had the search set up for them. However I deleted said search when I got a CMR jobbie - didn't seem much point with battling with an ancient Airfix thing then. However, seeing what you've done with the Chippie, I'd love to see you have a bash at one....!!!!

[perdu]

I see no chips/slips/nips Steve, looks amazing

Oh I wish I still had an Airfix mk3 JP, I reckon it would buff up nicely if brought out into the modern world

canopy utter magic mate

[Glen]

The canopy's come out really well, especially the blown section. I can't see any sign of the scratch in the pics either.

Off topic again! The 10 was much slower low down than other airliners. We could only do about 330 kts and that varied with altitude back to about 320 at 20000ft I think. The Anglo cargo 707s used to whizz away from us in the descent into Akrotiri during the Gulf. Up high we cruised at .86 like the 747 although the powers that be wanted us to do 84 to save fuel. It did burn a bit more at 86 but not as much as the tables as it was more stable so less throttle pumping for the Eng (no auto throttle). Mno was .925 when I joined the fleet but an Mne of .96 was introduced shortly after. The only scenario I could see for using that was possibly the tanker boys running away from a fighter? To make up ground a fighter would probably have to be supersonic and in burner so using horrendous amounts of fuel and hopefully getting short before it could get a shot away. Purely my best guess.

We did some IR trials at Bedford for a couple of days flying past monitors at various heights,speeds,configs etc. 300 kts at 100 ft certainly got a few spectators out! A big wing over to about 5000' and back for the next run. Our ex Firebirds skipper was in his element!

No idea what the results were but it was fun!

Cheers

Glen

[Fritag]

CMR do a lovely resin JP3 Steve, and there is the old Airfix injection kit. Long oop & they used to fetch silly money on e-bay, but whether it was the release of the CMR kit or not, they did seem to have come down from the stratosphere a littlewhen I still had the search set up for them. However I deleted said search when I got a CMR jobbie - didn't seem much point with battling with an ancient Airfix thing

Have you built it yet Keef?

Really love the painting on this, top effort mate....!

Cheers Radleigh

We did some IR trials at Bedford for a couple of days flying past monitors at various heights,speeds,configs etc. 300 kts at 100 ft certainly got a few spectators out! A big wing over to about 5000' and back for the next run.

Cheers

Glen

So now we've got Rod bombing along in a 747 at 360KIAS and Glen doing low level semi-aerobatics in a VC 10....!

I'm away for a week now walking in the Shetlands. In between frantically getting up to speed with work and packing - I dipped the canopy in klear - and here it is posed on the chippie along with the - as yet still white - prop posed in situ. Gives a first idea of how it's gping to look when finished.

Should still get my BM fix over a cup of coffee with Ipad and wi fi.

TTFN

Steve

[keefr22]

Have you built it yet Keef?

Errr, no... Looks lovely in the box though! And a friend has built one & it looks lovely then too!

And talking of looking lovely, that Chippie is a gem Steve!

Enjoy your walking...

K

[perdu]

Oh blimey yesss!

She looks as amazing as we'd expect.

Dont forget to show her with dr_gn's phoney ten bob bit (50 pence piece to you young babies) in shot.

The scale evidence will be needed to convince some of the sceptics that she isnt 1:48 or similar.

Enjoy the walk, you healthy git.

(my healthy walking days are long gone history,by the cringe...)

[Rod Blievers]

Hi Steve:

The canopy looks fantastic once fitted to the Chipmunk - not clumpy or overscale, it looks just like the real thing (dainty and petite, with thin frames that don't "overpower" the glazing - no mean feat in this scale). And just like the real aeroplane, it looks ugly in the fully open (fully aft) position - much better when amost fully forward (i.e. open at the first or second notch). And I wouldn't fret too much about that mystery line, either.

So now we've got Rod bombing along in a 747 at 360KIAS

I think the VC10 "wins" on account of its higher limiting speeds; the B747-200 had an MMO/VMO of M.09 and 375 KIAS (at sea level).

The favourite sport used to be overtaking slower aircraft, with the A340 being particularly easy game. Often we'd be coming back to HK from the Middle East - our route joined up with the traffic coming from Europe over western China just as it was getting light - and for the last 2 hours or so we'd be below and overtaking them all. My best "score" was four A340's from my own company. Now they'd already been airborne already for 12 hours or more, so the crews were tired and emotional, and thus particularly un-appreciative of our jibes over the radio (which made it even funnier for us)! Small things amuse small minds?

Edited June 29, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[Rod Blievers]

Hi Steve (again):

Not attempting to hijack the thread, but this is more or less on topic. Previously, comments have been made to the effect that this thread will serve as a future reference for Chipmunk modellers - that being the case, I'd like to expand on some comments I've made earlier, particularly when dealing with the two Red/White/Light Aircraft Grey schemes (see Page 7 of this thread).

I've been trying to chase up the why/where/when of the first R/W/LAG permutation (red leading edges and wing roots) as well as the timing of the overall Light Aircraft Grey scheme. As the result of a posting on the Military Aircraft Modelling Discussion by Era forum (see "RAF Paints") I've had input from Nick Millman, Dave Fleming, sloegin57 and Work in Progress. I've also been in contact with Bill Fisher (who was the Official Historian of the now defunct DHC-1 Chipmunk Club), Rod Brown (author of the UK Section of Chipmunk - the Poor Man's Spitfire), Geoff Ambrose (Air Britain Chipmunk Specialist) and Bill Taylor (DH Support Ltd). They have generously filled in a few grey areas although questions remain. Any readers who can point me to other exploration directions please do so - what a pity there's no IPMS UK RAF Trainers SIG!

For the sake of completeness, this is the entire time line for RAF Chipmunk colour schemes:

1950 Chipmunk introduced in the cellulose overall High Speed Silver scheme with yellow Trainer Bands.

1959 Yellow bands replaced with Day-Glo, initially painted panels but due to paint instability issues eventually applied as the more familar stick-on strips.

1966 Polyurethane paints introduced. As the manufacturer was (at that stage at least) unable to produce a satisfactory silver, the tonally similar Light Aircraft Grey appears. Initially, the "take up" rate on the Chipmunk is very slow, with only a handful of aircraft noted in overall LAG until (say) 1969.

1970 Mod H 293 (24.6.1970) promulgates the overall LAG scheme. Now the plot thickens - at much the same time 2 FTS Chipmunks are being painted in a Red/White/LAG scheme (the "first permutation").

1972 Mod H 307 (June 1972) specifies the R/W/LAG colours but in a subtly different scheme - attached diagrams show red outboard wing panels and elevators plus LAG wing roots (i.e. the "second permutation").

1977 Black/white spinner and prop markings introduced.

1983 Underwing serials no longer to be applied.

1991 Remaining underwing serials to be removed.

It seems that new paints/colours/schemes were extensively trialled before any formal documentation was issued (the Mods in the case of the Chipmunk). If these trials proved successful the paint/colour/scheme would then be universally adopted and formal instructions issued (yes, it has distinct undertones of the Luftwaffe and the RLM 74/75/76 colours, doesn't it?). So it's apparent that the overall LAG trials were successful, but the initial trials at 2 FTS using the new colours weren't entirely so. It's open to conjecture as to why this initial scheme was held to be unsatisfactory - I can make some guesses but I simply don't know, nor can anyone else tell me.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[feifeitim]

Steve!

Truly stunning! Awesome skills!

Rod,

Having flown the -200 Classic too, I thought that you were slightly exaggerating the plus points of Boeing's finest! But I have done 360kts in it too! Very noisy!

Tim

[Work In Progress]

Coming back to Rod's further research on the two different red / white / LAG schemes, one can muse on a couple of possible advantages which might have favoured the second version when seen across the wider fleet of training types:

1. the red wingtips have greater visual 'solidity' than the long thin shape of a heading edge, so are probably easier to spot at a distance

2. dividing the wing 'root and tip' versus 'L.E and T.E' probably makes it easier to adapt to other types, including swept-wing types like the Gnat, Hunter and so on.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Work In Progress

[woody37]

You've done a grand job on that canopy Steve, I just can't believe I'm looking at a 1/72 scale rivet infested Airfix kit, stunning and most inspirational

[Glen]

It looks fantastic Steve, great job. Enjoy your walking, hope the weather holds.

Hi Rod. The A340 was a pain in the *rse. Great fun to motor past as you say (744) but a nightmare if they were at your level. Far east bound was the worst with restricted routes/levels. I've got a Ronald Wong painting on the wall titled 'Life in the Fast Lane' with a BA 744 overtaking a Virgin 340 - always makes me chuckle. Unfortunately .78 is my limit nowadays in the minibus. I fly with plenty of young FOs who are desperate to get onto the 744 before it disappears. It's such an iconic aeroplane.

Cheers

Glen

[Rod Blievers]

Feitetim:

Me "slightly exagerating"?? How could you say such a thing? Actually I've subsequently dug up my CRAFT ("Can't Remember A F*****ing Thing") notes for the B742, which gives an MMO of 0.892. I don't have my notes for the B743 or B744, I seem to recall that the latter had a lower VMO.

Work in Progress:

Bill Fisher thought the RAF prefered the outer wing panels being painted as "it assisted in alignment during formation flying". Not to be lightly dismissed, in Chipmunk - the First Fifty Years , he discusses the first scheme worn at 2 FTS and states that this was intended to be the standard. Also, I might have earlier mentioned the one possible flaw that I can see with the first scheme: when viewed from above/directly astern, there's very little red visible.

Glen:

Oh yes, I think all B747 pilots have been in the situation of having to slow down because there's an A340 bumbling along and blocking the airway ahead. There was a joke going around that the A340 got airborne and then hovered, as it was quicker to allow the earth's rotation to bring the destination to it!

Edited June 30, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[Glen]

Hadn't heard that one! At heavy weights they can't climb and accelerate to 250 at the same time - I've heard them a number of times at LHR asking for one or the other. I think the 500 and 600 with the Trents are much better and a bit quicker.

I must have a look in the book to see what the 744 was red lined at - I think it was variable. A mate of mine from CX cargo berated me in the pub one night somewhere around the world as he'd been stuck behind one of our 744s flying far too slowly to make the LHR night ban. His heavy Classic did not really want to stay flying at that speed!

[spiton]

It's hard to belive that This model is in scale 1/72.

[Rod Blievers]

And another thing! Just checking the two photos I have showing the FSS badge under the windscreen (WK640/C and WP786/D) - both Chipmunks are in the second R/W/LG scheme with the grey wingroots, so they're not the Chipmunk you're standing on!

Steve:

I posted the above comment on page 7 of this thread - maybe the aircraft you were standing on was this one? This shot has just been posted on the PPrune/Military Aircrew/FSS thread - it's truly intriguing, this is clearly in the second variant of the R/W/LAG scheme (note that the wing outer panels and elevators are red) but the wing root panels are also in red (they should be grey)!!!! Possibly those panels are off another aircraft?

But then I started sleuthing around further and found, in a few hundred photos, one other possible anomoly - this photo has already been posted before by me - could it be that the closest aircraft (WD310/H) also has red wingroots? Compare the leading edge/fuselage junction with the other aircraft in the row.

Cheers,

Rod.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[keefr22]

But then I started sleuthing around further and found, in a few hundred photos, one other possible anomoly - this photo has already been posted before by me - could it be that the closest aircraft (WD310/H) also has red wingroots? Compare the leading edge/fuselage junction with the other aircraft in the row.

That latter demarcation looks the same as the aircraft in the background of your first pic Rod, so does suggest that it shows an a/c with grey wingroots.

K

[perdu]

It looks like the different iteration of the scheme to me too Rod, there's no obvious overlap of grey up the fuselage as you say. Sorry Keef, I think Rod is right here.

Have to say that aesthetically the red wing fillet looks "nicer" than the grey version to me. The wings look more defined without the grey lead in.

more Chippy pics stored Rod, ta

b