Airfix Chipmunk T.10 1/72

[keefr22]

I've got the S + M post war british piston trainer collection decals and I think I can cobble together WG479 or WK643 from that - but there isn't a black G or a K for the tail or white one's for the nose. The Airfix Decals have white G and K which I might be able to use for the nose but not the tail.

Seeing as I'm going to have to print the FSS logo onto decal paper anyway - I should probably be able to print the nose/tauilletters as required. I think. I think.

Steve

Unless you've got an Alps or similar printer Steve you could have problems printing white codes for the nose. I have quite a few sheets of generic code letters in white & black, if you're stuck let me know what size & what letters you want & I'll check for you.

keef

[perdu]

I didnt think there were much "proper" bombing with Chippy's Keef (stuff I find out from this great thread- wow!)

NO Keef, wot I means is the chat you guys are sharing with us less ornerary people who didn't get real drives in the Chippy.

THAT is what makes this thread a total first prize winner in the Chip Club annals, you dont have to bow out at all

I have been lucky enough to spend odd "hours" in Ossifers (and the rarified air of the Sarge's) Mess bars listening and nattering as you do, this thread has been exactly like one of those sessions. So good it hurts and you have all been essential.

Chippy has the heart of everyone who flew in her

I had a couple of hours total as a cadet, later on a few more blagged as an ATC Civilian Instructor at various camps and at 8AEF at Shawbury. When I took my birthday gift flight and spoke to the instructor I was amazed to learn that those hours would count towards a PPL if I took the course.

As a result of this he made me do all the work when driving his PA28 thingy. Drive out of the "'plane park" area, onto the taxi way pause at the theshold as one of Mr Boeing's little fat dumpy things flew off northwardly, taxi and turn down the short runway at BHX turn her round and then drive her up off the ground, pootle off towards Bromsgrove and the Lower Black Country then back round and down onto the runway again.

He didn't let me sit back and ride any of it...

He did tell me off for watching the dials too much once though, "Look outside to see where the wingtips are"

All because of many flights in that little piece of dHC beauty that Steve is bringing back to life, which is why I and lots more of us are riding along the skirts of "some pilots" enjoying the best game in town.

If I wasnt old, decrepit and retired I would be working lots of OT to pay for more hours at BHX or elsewhere local.

Steve, that windscreen simply blows me away, it is bloody amazing. This isn't going to take long to get bulled up for inspection mate

I am willing to bet you will find a decent shot of the one you need when you 'close up inspect' Peter's pictures, so you can choose the badge position you need too.

b

(tell y'bout the Sherpa laters guys... and the kitchen ceiling)

[perdu]

We can always find white letters if you need them somewhere in the archives at Perdutowers too, Steve

[feifeitim]

Stramash!

Excellent photos! I'd forgotten about the parachute waddle to the aircraft!

Tim

[perdu]

Ah just a thought

if you print white letters on a background colour that suits the model (BSI 361 Post Office Red for example) you CAN make white decals to suit out of white decal sheet

juss like that!

Any such work can be done fairly easily in MS Word by selecting font colour-background colour on their vast style menu

I'll probably be doing this to print faded black 'gray' for the serials on t'Sherpa, possibly on a dark grey background

Playing with this next week--- watch that space

Ah, just had a play

SIMPLES

arial text white (centre of text colour circle)

paper colour red

nice, try it huge fun for geeky me

just what doc ordered

b

Edited May 2, 2013 by perdu

[feifeitim]

That windscreen is delightful Steve! Awesome work! Your persistence paid off!

[Rod Blievers]

More photos of FSS Chipmunks, Steve? Done.

Actually they're taken in 1988, when the unit had become EFTS but they're still all sporting the FFS badge (and all on the cowl side too).

The nearest aircraft is WD310/H (it could possibly be WP844), the rest I can't decipher I'm afraid.

There's WG479/K in front!

WK633/B

Here's another shot, this time all sporting the EFTS badge, included because it's a particularly lovely photo I think.

The next thing you'll want to think about is underwing serials. Now these were withdrawn by Mod H.363 in 1983 (just why a Mod, which normally involved equipment or structural changes should involve itself with markings is beyond me, but at least it gives us a date marker) but as I've said before some mods seemed to flow very slowly indeed through the Chipmunk fleet (the earlier photo of an FSS Chipmunk with the earlier exhaust is a case in point). From what I can see both WK643/G and WK633/B still carried underwing serials in their FSS days, whereas WG479/K did not.

But there's a trap! Note WG478/L appears not to have underwing serials in the photo above (well, not under the RH wing at least), now look at this shot from the same sequence:

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I think the only time I got biffed was early on - still doing circuits and working to max capacity even doing that - I didn't have the capacity to both say - and do - the downwind checks. I still remember it. I trotted out the mantra of "gear going down - three reds - three greens" and suddenly had a Keef style bash on the bonce. I hadn't actually got around to putting the undercarriage lever down, so I couldn't have seen the three reds or three greens that I was alleging. The RAF was pretty keen on studes not landing with the undercarriage up I seem to remember. I think I failed that trip......

Ha! That's terribly familiar, but in my case I didn't have the excuse of being a poor overworked stude. About a year into my first front line tour on 820 NAS (Sea Kings, Ark Royal) - in fact it was one of my first trips post C of C, so I was aircraft captain - we had our port engine run down in the hover, and we ditched. So many million times of trotting out the war cries in a practice that it all happened seamlessly - "Torque split - call Nr!" "Nr 95... 92... 87... 82..." "Mayday mayday mayday...".

Unfortunately, all the previous times had been in practice, so the one thing you definitely didn't do was press the tit to transmit. So when it happened for real, the one thing I didn't do was press the tit to transmit; the rest of my crew heard an impeccable Mayday call... but no-one else did.

Luckily the water didn't put out the radios, which are in the nose bay of a Sea King, so think God the seals were in good nick. So I finally got around to transmitting the ditching call.

In fact the engine hadn't failed - just the fuel computer - so we were able to control the throttle manually and take off again, recovering to Mum minus three jettisoned windows and plus an awful lot of water. But the phantom Mayday call cost me a lot of beer!

When it became my turn to teach people how to fly, my sympathy wit the studes went up a fair amount as a result (not that I told them that, obviously!)

[Fritag]

So when it happened for real, the one thing I didn't do was press the tit to transmit; the rest of my crew heard an impeccable Mayday call... but no-one else did.

Love it!

I can picture it all happening in my head (if you see what I mean).

See - the downside of having a crew is the transparency of the c**k ups and the ££ it costs you in beer.

Steve

Stramash - Thanks for the photos. Like Tim I'd forgotten about the parachute waddle. It's brought back the embarrassment. It looks like your friend is next to 'K' (WG 479) which is the one I'd most like to represent.

Bill/Keef. Thanks for the thoughts on the decal/printing business.

Rod. More great photos. Thanks. I was at FSS in March 1982. So before the 1983 Mod. Your flypast cover shows WK643 (G) with serials under both wings. WK633 (B.) definitely has one under the starboard wing in your photo - so does that mean it would have had one under both? - I say this because whilst WG 478 has only one - that is under the port wing. So far no underside shots of WG479 (K) but I note you think it didn't have underwing serials. But were you thinking the post 1983 period?

So - the evidential lacuna at present is WG479 pre 1983.....

PS. Do you know the dimension for the radio aerials x 2 on the rear fuselage? I think I can estimate the size and location well enough from the various photos - but if you just happen to know.........

Steve

Edited May 3, 2013 by Fritag

[keefr22]

Ah just a thought

if you print white letters on a background colour that suits the model (BSI 361 Post Office Red for example) you CAN make white decals to suit out of white decal sheet

juss like that!

Only problem I find with that method Bill, is unless you get a spot on match with the background colour, it ends up looking as bad as a decal with horrendous carrier film showing! Much easier to just scrounge a couple of Modeldecals...!!

Another great tale ex-FAAWAFU...!!

k

[Rod Blievers]

Hi Steve:

The Flypast magazine has a photo of WG479 sans underwing serials, but that's around 1987 and it's sporting the EFTS badge. So if you're depicting her in 1982, feel to free to totally ignore all my blurb about underwing serials - they would have been there.

I think the serial displayed under one wing is VERY unusual indeed. I was told that the reason the serials were removed was to facilitate swapping wings, so possibly that's whats occurred with WG478. I have a huge box full of RAF Engineering Logbooks, maybe one rainy day I'll look through them (they're rather daunting) for a one wing replacement...

Did you note the "racing number" under the wingtip? Apparently WG478 was "the fastest Chipmunk at EFTS", rather galling considering the time/expense/tweaking involved in getting a reasonable turn of speed out of her now!

I'm going down on Sunday - I'll measure up the UHF antennae then.

Cheers,

Rod.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[perdu]

Only problem I find with that method Bill, is unless you get a spot on match with the background colour, it ends up looking as bad as a decal with horrendous carrier film showing! Much easier to just scrounge a couple of Modeldecals...!!

Another great tale ex-FAAWAFU...!!

k

I agree Keef, I never fancied printing a huge red A4 sheet off just to supply a letter O in white either. I'm just testing theories.

more of this when I get in it on Sherpiebaby

b

Modeldecals, gottem!

[Fritag]

But there's a trap! Note WG478/L appears not to have underwing serials in the photo above (well, not under the RH wing at least), now look at this shot from the same sequence:

Did you note the "racing number" under the wingtip? Apparently WG478 was "the fastest Chipmunk at EFTS", rather galling considering the time/expense/tweaking involved in getting a reasonable turn of speed out of her now!

Rod, The "speed" chipmunk then? Surely worthy of a special streamlined canopy and fancy paint scheme?

Steve

[SimonR]

Just off to North Norfolk for the weekend with mrs R & kids, and hidden away in my bag is some plasticard, scalpel, steel ruler, re-scriber, wet & dry, cement and a little Airfix Chippie (i'm always up first with smallest one so will have time if you are wondering!)

Just hope I can get internet access so I can refer to this thread while we're away!!

Have a good weekend all!

cheers

Simon

Edited May 3, 2013 by SimonR

[Fritag]

Simon,

North Norfolk - happy days at Coltishall and missus working down the bunker at Neatishead peering at Radar screens.

Good Pubs (at least they were in the 80's) - the Recruiting Sergeant and Rising Sun in Colt village and the Goat Inn nearby in Skeyton. We seemed to spend a lot of time in them as I remember.

We like going back to North Norfolk every now and then - staying in Holt, walking the coast.

Have a good time. Also - I'm looking forward to your Chippie. I loved your Hunters and Jags.

Mine's on hold for a week now. Wanted to get a bit done today before hols - but too much to do.

Still - I'll have my Ipad with me so I'll still be checking out BM.

Back in a week.

Steve

Edited May 7, 2013 by Fritag

[Rod Blievers]

Hi Steve!

More FSS photos - I have no information as to where, but both shots are dated August, 1980. Note the aft location of the badge:

The antennae fit - all FFS Chipmunks carried the two UHF aerials, I've measured mine at 8.5 X 3.5 inches. Please see the attached drawings from Chipmunk - the first fifty years by MDN Fisher, RW Brown and T Rothermel (to put it in context, the book that I was involved in started life as a -the first sixty years project). They depict WK643/G at EFTS in September 1988. Note that the swept VHF rod antenna mounted on the tailcone seems to have been fitted to all EFTS aircraft during that unit's life; FSS Chipmunks didn't have this.

And I must apoligize to you for not posting these dawings earlier; I knew I had them "somewhere" but they proved very hard to find...

I measured the lower antenna as being 6 inches aft of the trailing edge of the wing/fuselage fairing. Note that this was mounted subtly off the fuselage centreline; being fixed perpandicular to the fuselage skin it wasn't actually vertical - this not very good shot, taken yesterday while dodging dripping hot engine oil, illustrates this:

Edited May 6, 2013 by Rod Blievers

[perdu]

Rod these are briliant pictures

Even if Steve doesn't find them useful (HE WILL!) I will

Thanks for dodging the hot oil too

bill

[geedubelyer]

What can I say,.......?

Brill'!

This thread will be invaluable for future builders in all scales. Keep it comin' you blokes.

[HOUSTON]

Interesting ...

[Fritag]

Rod these are briliant pictures

Even if Steve doesn't find them useful (HE WILL!) I will

Thanks for dodging the hot oil too

bill

He does. Thanks Rod. Fascinating and really helpful stuff.

The FSS badge positioning is interesting. Your 1988 photos show the badge on the cowls. WG479/K definitely has it on the cowl as I can just see the badge on the open cowl.

Stramash's photos are from June 1983 if I remember rightly - and the line up of chippies all seem to have the badge on the cowl. The only one that clearly shows WG479/K doesn't show the front of the aircraft but I think it a safe assumption that the badge was on the cowl.

Your photos from 1980 show the badge on the fuselage. Neither is WG479/K.

My photo from March 1982 shows me sitting on a chippie with the badge on the fuselage and in the background is one without a badge at all. Neither is WG479/K.

So. Is it the case that at the start of the 1980's the badges were on the fuselage and that later on the position was changed to the cowl? or is it the case that some had them on the cowl and some on the fuselage?

At present my guess is that the position changed. This seems to be supported by the line up photos in 1983 and 1988. Do you think this is right Rod?

Of course that leaves the position in 1982 - when I was on FSS. It looks to me that some would have had the badge on the cowl, some on the fuselage and at least one didn't have any badges at the time. Oh why didn't I take more photos? I guess WG479/K could have had the badge in either position at that time? Any ideas Rod? Anyone else?

What can I say,.......?

Brill'!

This thread will be invaluable for future builders in all scales. Keep it comin' you blokes.

Thanks to Rod in particular - plus the guys for posting their FSS photos. I think my contribution has been to be the lucky recipient of much good advice.

Steve

PS.

Lovely weather for the walking in the far north of Scotland at the moment. Here's a view of Garvie Island from Faraid Head taken earlier today. I've dropped a few live 1,000lbrs on it in the past - as has Tim I would think. Unfortunately no sight or sound of military hardware today...

Edited May 8, 2013 by Fritag

[perdu]

Poor old Garvie, I'm surprised you buggers didn't sink her

This badge position is turning into "one of those things" isn't it?

But as has been said this Chipmunk build is turning into CLASSIC and epic modelling "where to turn" archive material

I'm glad you are enjoying your holiday

(I'm not)

catch you later

b

[Rod Blievers]

Maybe the badge postion isn't that much of a problem? The chronology of the photos would seem to suggest that the badge was initially positioned on the forward fuselage and then subsequently moved (further forward) to the cowl sides.

[Stramash]

I suspect a few on here, like me also visit Pprune occasionally There's currently a very interesting thread on RAF Chipmunks, with loads more photos, although none from FSS.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/412255-raf-chipmunks-7.html

[feifeitim]

Ah Garvie! Happy days! More memories come flooding back courtesy of this wonderful thread! We used to have to stop at Machrihanish for a fuel uplift then go on to Garvie. It was always a challenge to hit the exact point. Anyone can hit an island but if I recall, the aiming point was some 87' up the cliff edge which meant that you had to either use active laser ranging or have an excellent barometric channel for the bomb to hit the right place. Was lucky enough to drop a Paveway II there on one occasion with the SAS marking the island with a handheld laser. Great fun throwing the bomb 4 miles to a lump of granite!

Often wanted to see what it was like from the ground. Seems you were relatively lucky with the weather Steve, it can be filthy up there at times as I'm sure you recall!

[Rod Blievers]

Stramah - I'm also a PPrune browser, but not being ex-military I don't normally look at that forum. Thanks for the "heads up", there are some great photos there. I've just posted several as well....