RAF Airfield questions

[oldgit]

Firstly, please let me apologise if this is in the wrong place. Technically, it isn't about aircraft, more vehicles and ground equipment, but please move this post if you feel it 's appropriate to do so.

 

So, here we go chaps. I have some queries regarding RAF WW2 aerodromes upon which I hope some forum member may be able to kindly shed some light.

 

RAF Bell Tent circa 1940

 

Chaps,

 

Can anyone show me a clear image of a circa 1940 RAF bell tent please?

 

I’d like to attempt one in 1-48^th scale to be part or a slow time Hawkinge diorama that I’m building.

 

They would be useful in 1-72^nd also – great with the forthcoming new Airfix Gladiator & early Hurricane I for a ‘Phoney War’ scenario!

 

There are some bell tents lurking in the background of the shots taken of 32 Sqn at Hawkinge by the press in summer 1940 – they look

to be a light colour, unlike British army 80lb and 160lb tents, which were dark green, mid earth or dark brown, although I can’t make out any detail.

 

Can anyone confirm the dimensions and the colour of 1940 period RAF bell tents please?

 

Does anyone know the number of guy ropes used?

 

Has anyone attempted to make one in model form?

 

RAF Ambulances 1939-41

 

Can anyone advise me what ambulances were used by Fighter Command in 1940 please?

 

I know that the Austin K2 wasn’t common until mid war. Until then, what was used?

 

I thought the Standard 14 HP 4x2 for fighter ‘dromes during the BoB, but if anyone can advise

me better, please do so.

 

Finally, for the summer 1940 period, can anyone advise with certainty on the ambulance vehicle colours?

 

RAF Fire Tenders 1939-40

 

Can anyone advise me what Fire Tenders were used by Fighter Command in 1939-1940 please?

 

I know that the Fordson WOT1  Type T 6x4 wasn’t common until after the BoB & that the Crossley Q30 was mid war & later.

 

If anyone can advise me , please do so.

 

Finally, for the summer 1940 period, can anyone advise with certainty on the RAF fire Tender colour?

 

RAF NAAFI Truck

 

Can anyone advise me what NAAFI/YMCA canteen trucks were used on Fighter Command airfields in 1939-41 please?

 

Ford 10 or Bedford OXD, or Austins, come to mind. Was there a standard type, or did they vary?

 

What about later in the war, on Bomber Command Fields, were the vehicles bigger or of a different type?

 

Has anyone out there tried to build one in 1-48^th scale?

 

RAF Airfield Caravan

 

Was there a standard 4 wheel, 2 axle design?

 

I have seen photos of several variations over the years, with aircraft plexiglass nose cones being used as

observation blisters, or with greenhouse type cupolas, but were they locally modified from a standard design

or were there different types?

 

Particularly early in the war, camouflaged, 2 wheeled ‘civilian’ caravans seem to have been used on some

fighter aerodromes. Is there something appropriate/similar available in 1-48^th scale anywhere, even in diecast, perhaps?

 

Modern equivalents  of runway caravans, now based on Ford or Bedford chassis, seem to be red & white but I understand

that wartime ones were black & white. Is the colour change significant at all? Were they always black & white during WW2?

 

RAF Follow Me Vehicle

 

Pre 1942, when the Jeep entered service, did the R.A.F. have a ‘Follow Me’ vehicle?

 

RAF Keep Out Signs

 

Am I correct to assume that there would have been ‘Keep Out’ signs periodically around an airfield perimeter fence?

 

Does anyone know what they looked like in WW2?

 

Aerodrome Grass

 

In 1940, most RAF aerodromes were in effect, big grass fields.

 

That grass would have had to be kept fairly short. Mowers, to be towed behind the typical Fordson

or David Brown tractors must have been issued. Does anyone know what type, what they looked like

and how they worked?

 

Thanks for the advice and info everyone, and thanks for your time.

 

Tim

 

[Test Graham]

The early war colour for RAF vehicles was a dark blue, darker than RAF uniform/ensign blue.  Some of the vehicles, at least, were camouflaged using available paints (probably those intended for camouflaging buildings) before the Battle of France, but shortly after this it was decided to standardise on the Army colours of the time.  For which I advise looking at Mike Starmer's articles on the MAFVA website, but for the most of the war this will have been a dark brown - SCC2 (IIRC).

 

For British military vehicles I strongly advise the recent work by Les Freathy, British Military Trucks of WW2, from Tankograd.  The RAF mainly used dedicated vehicles from Commer, Albion and Crossley.  Early ambulances were possibly based on the Morris Commercial CS11/30 or D, but this body was used on Morris, Bedford and Ford as well as the K2.  There is a reference to, and several photos of, the Crossley 1GL as a Fire Tender, including some shapely-bodied variants that went to France but sadly do not seem to have returned.  The 1GL was superseded by the Ford WOT and later the Austin K6.

 

I don't believe that the runway caravans were standardised, but can't confirm that.  I'm sure red and white would have been far too conspicuous for wartime.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Graham Boak

[pte1643]

I don't believe that the runway caravans were standardised, but can't confirm that.  I'm sure red and white would have been far too conspicuous for wartime.

 

I can't really add anything concrete regarding the RAF (I have no colour references), but there are some colour pictures in Roger Freemans - Mighty Eighth - The Colour Record, that show Caravans in Black and White Check.

 

It's possible that the RAF ones could have been the same.

[Test Graham]

A photo in Freathy of a Ford E38W van converted to RN runway control caravan looks more like Black and Yellow than black and white: there is a lot of contrast between the squares and the white markings.

 

The Crossley Q 4x4 Fire Tender was built from 1940 to 1943.

 

Another common crewbus was the Bedford OXC with trailer.

[pte1643]

Actually, come to think...  The "Roy Cross Lancaster" boxart (the one with the engine on fire) had a checkered caravan in the pcture too.

 

A quick google reveals that as being Black and Yellow... 

 

Roy Cross must have taken a reference from somewhere, and I don't ever recall anyone saying the artwork was wrong.

[Radpoe Spitfire]

I can't really add anything concrete regarding the RAF (I have no colour references), but there are some colour pictures in Roger Freemans - Mighty Eighth - The Colour Record, that show Caravans in Black and White Check.

 

It's possible that the RAF ones could have been the same.

 

There used to be a Rwy caravan at Newark which was definitly Black/White Checked.

[ted angus]

 Gents,  Although I have passed much info to oldgit on another forum I feel I must jump in and correct some of the posts above: 

The Questions relates mainly to BoB /early WW2 Fighter Command ;

At onset of hostilities the  standard RAF vehicle & ground equipment colour was RAF Blue Grey BSC 33  later renumbered BSC 633.  This is from AMOs.   There is a mass of photo evidence that the vast majority of assetts that went to France,  and that which was used in UK during the period 1939 to early 41 was camo painted.   It is possible that  some building paints may have been suitable:  following that line of thought the colours used on buildings were from a Standardised Civil Defence camo paint range which later became the war emergency BS 987.   THe colours in the CD range directly relate to the subsequent BS 987 range of SCC colours.

  Last year in a TV documentary about BoB pilots some 8mm home movie film was shown and camo vehicles in colours - Dark Green and an Earthy Brown similar to the aircraft colours were clearly seen ; At the time a brown No 2 was availible in the CD building range-- this colour was the SCCNo 2 when BSC 987 was published .

 

 During this period  the Army had standardised on Khaki Green No 3 with light or dark green as the disruptor for their camo scheme-  so it is very likely many RAF units followed this path; 

( In 1941 the RAF formally published an AMO on the subject and adopted  the Army colours and scheme patterns. For the rest of hostilities AMO mirrored Army instructions. )

 

 The RAF had very few Austin K2 ambulances during WW2 , in 40 years of research I have only identified a handful , firstly in Italy 1n 1944 then later with 2TAF.

,  The standard aerodrome ambulance in UK during the BoB was the Albion 4x2.  Some older Morris Commercials were still evident and RAF Fowlmere certainly had one

The most common fire tenders during the BoB  were the Fordson Sussex 6x4 equipped with 3 x 30 gallon froth extinquishers, The Crossley 6x4 Teardrop from 1936/7 and the Crossley 6x4 from 1939  which carried the same set up as was later to be seen on the Crossley 4x4 and the Fordson WOT1.    The Austin K6 tender in the Airfix kit NEVER served with the RAF or RN- it served with the Ministry of civil Aviation having been built in 1946 to support civil aviation which was restating after the wartime restrictions.  The RAF did have a tender with an identical basck end to the Airfix kit , but this was an a Fordson WOT1A/1 chassis and was built during 1945/6 after the war had ended.   There were no formal crew transports in the BoB, I have photos of Fordson tippers,  Humber Snipe utilities , private cars  etc etc in use during that period.  The Bedford OXC with bus trailer  was built for the ministry of supply to transport workers to and from and around  large production sites including MAP aerodromes, but, they were produced after the BoB period.  The first RAF aircrew coaches were on the Fordson WOT1 6x4   they were also mounted on the Austin K6 and Dodge chassis, BW models No 315  typifies this vehicle   have a look at his website.  Runway caravans were black and white ,  they were not a feature of BoB airfields, indeed much later in the war and then rarely seen on fighter aerodromes.   Grass cutting was a Air Ministry  works dept task ,  agricultural tractors with gangs of mowers were standard and there is an AMO which required them to be painted yellow or orange !!!!!  yes during the said period !!!!   Mike Starmers books are a great reference, the RAF kept in step with the ARMY from 41,  bear in mind when referring to AMOs or  Army Council instructions ( as  repeated in Mike's books) that AMOs and ACI could take up to 3 months between beginning to write the relevant order and the  order being distributed to the Stations and units- so schemes would in some cases have already been promulgated to units by faster means eg telex signals or letter.    Good luck

TED 

[Selwyn]

Gents, Although I have passed much info to oldgit on another forum I feel I must jump in and correct some of the posts above:

The Questions relates mainly to BoB /early WW2 Fighter Command ;

At onset of hostilities the standard RAF vehicle & ground equipment colour was RAF Blue Grey BSC 33 later renumbered BSC 633. This is from AMOs. There is a mass of photo evidence that the vast majority of assetts that went to France, and that which was used in UK during the period 1939 to early 41 was camo painted. It is possible that some building paints may have been suitable: following that line of thought the colours used on buildings were from a Standardised Civil Defence camo paint range which later became the war emergency BS 987. THe colours in the CD range directly relate to the subsequent BS 987 range of SCC colours.

Last year in a TV documentary about BoB pilots some 8mm home movie film was shown and camo vehicles in colours - Dark Green and an Earthy Brown similar to the aircraft colours were clearly seen ; At the time a brown No 2 was availible in the CD building range-- this colour was the SCCNo 2 when BSC 987 was published .

During this period the Army had standardised on Khaki Green No 3 with light or dark green as the disruptor for their camo scheme- so it is very likely many RAF units followed this path;

( In 1941 the RAF formally published an AMO on the subject and adopted the Army colours and scheme patterns. For the rest of hostilities AMO mirrored Army instructions. )

The RAF had very few Austin K2 ambulances during WW2 , in 40 years of research I have only identified a handful , firstly in Italy 1n 1944 then later with 2TAF.

, The standard aerodrome ambulance in UK during the BoB was the Albion 4x2. Some older Morris Commercials were still evident and RAF Fowlmere certainly had one

The most common fire tenders during the BoB were the Fordson Sussex 6x4 equipped with 3 x 30 gallon froth extinquishers, The Crossley 6x4 Teardrop from 1936/7 and the Crossley 6x4 from 1939 which carried the same set up as was later to be seen on the Crossley 4x4 and the Fordson WOT1. The Austin K6 tender in the Airfix kit NEVER served with the RAF or RN- it served with the Ministry of civil Aviation having been built in 1946 to support civil aviation which was restating after the wartime restrictions. The RAF did have a tender with an identical basck end to the Airfix kit , but this was an a Fordson WOT1A/1 chassis and was built during 1945/6 after the war had ended. There were no formal crew transports in the BoB, I have photos of Fordson tippers, Humber Snipe utilities , private cars etc etc in use during that period. The Bedford OXC with bus trailer was built for the ministry of supply to transport workers to and from and around large production sites including MAP aerodromes, but, they were produced after the BoB period. The first RAF aircrew coaches were on the Fordson WOT1 6x4 they were also mounted on the Austin K6 and Dodge chassis, BW models No 315 typifies this vehicle have a look at his website. Runway caravans were black and white , they were not a feature of BoB airfields, indeed much later in the war and then rarely seen on fighter aerodromes. Grass cutting was a Air Ministry works dept task , agricultural tractors with gangs of mowers were standard and there is an AMO which required them to be painted yellow or orange !!!!! yes during the said period !!!! Mike Starmers books are a great reference, the RAF kept in step with the ARMY from 41, bear in mind when referring to AMOs or Army Council instructions ( as repeated in Mike's books) that AMOs and ACI could take up to 3 months between beginning to write the relevant order and the order being distributed to the Stations and units- so schemes would in some cases have already been promulgated to units by faster means eg telex signals or letter. Good luck

TED

Ted,

I think a lot of the confusion about the correct blue colour used on RAF vehicles and ground equipment, stems from the fact that there was actually two blues used by the RAF.

RAF blue grey BS 33 (633) was used for vehicles pre and post war, but the RAF used "Traffic Blue" (This is the name given in BS 381c but I can't remember the BS number!)which was used to repaint ground equipment post war. this resulted in some specialist airfield vehicles being repainted in either one or the other depending on location. Of course this also applied to wartime manufactured equipment, used post war, which adds to the confusion.

Selwyn

Edited February 13, 2013 by Selwyn