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That's it - I've had enough of Harder and Steenbeck


Chris Jephcott
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  • 3 weeks later...

I have only just joined this site after veiwing all the excellent examples of your members work, while looking for hints and tips to improve my airbrushing i came across this post;

When i first took up the hobby again 4 years ago, I soon found that i would want an airbrush and so brought a cheap chinese one on ebay,although it did give reasonable results I soon realised its limitations, so after saveing up without doing much research i brought an H and S,evolution only on a hunch that being German it would be well engineered, and I liked the sound of the name!! ; On geting it out of the box I expected a 100% improvement on the other one, and how dissopointed I was!!.

I very soon felt just like you, but with money very hard to find I could not afford to replace it, so I just had to soldier on with the thing the best that I could, It is only now after much trial and error there was nothing wrong the airbrush just my technique, I cannot add much to what has already been written only to say that it seems that all the model paints that I have tried have their merits and limitations, and need correct thinning, i know only thin with whatever brand I am useings own thinners , and have learnt never to put thinned paint back into the original container it can lead to contamination, because the 1,5 needle is so fine the slightest speck of dust will block it. If i can give one tip for the top Lidl sell a degreasant for the kitchen in an orange spray container called W5 it as an excellant airbrush cleaner and cheap, it will remove dried paint and i have left my airbrush soaking in it for days in my sonic cleaner, (also from Lidl) and has had no ill efect on the seals and joints.

If I were you i would save your money and soldier on with your H and S, mine now fits my hand like a glove, I cannot speak for other brands I have never tried them, with care and attention this tool will last a lifetime. One thing I can say is if I had taken the advise from the first book i read on the subject then I would have brought an Azteck, after reading all the posts on here this morning im glad I didnt.

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Hello Stuck - glad to hear you've made progress. I have no experience at all with H&S airbrushes, but what you say in general sounds very familiar, much the same process that I underwent. I started in the same way, using cheap and/or obscure airbrushes that were either difficult to use, unreliable, or difficult to clean and maintain: eventually I went for Iwata and have three currently, really well made and work extremely well. At the same time, I went through a process of experimentation with different paints, abandoning acrylics because i found them utterly impossible, finding a good technique using enamels, then finally getting to grips with acrylics because I tried Vallejo and that brand worked for me.

From all I hear, H&S are indeed perfectly sound - and those who complain about them probably have just not found the right technique or the best paints.

Thanks for the tip about that Lidl W5 stuff - it's probably cheaper than Fairy Power Spray, which acts as a very effective remover of enamel paint and a cleaning agent too.

Regards, Tony

Edited by corporate
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Hi there Tony, Dont get me wrong I am still haveing problems with fine lines,sometimes it splutters , and if its too thin spiders; but i am sure these are problems i would get with any airbrush, and maybe this is just a problem with the tamiya paint that i use a lot. I would realy like to try some of those pysco italian colour scemes, but Im still learning and so until i am confident on geting it right I will continue to cut my teeth on very basic ones.

I have been a Carpenter and Joiner for nearly 45 yrs, and sometimes people have watched me saw and plane a piece of wood and ask me how i make look so easy, well the awnser is that ive done so much that im not realy thinking about it. I think that is the secret of good airbrushing, and im sure that if i watched a real artist at work and asked him thats the same awnser that he would give me.

I have tried vallejo brush paint and am realy pleased with it, so i must try the air range.

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I agree with what the other guys have said, the 0.15 is too small for stuff like Vallejo, but works perfectly fine with thinner stuff like Alclads. I was using a 0.2 for all my general purpose acrylic spraying and then I'd bung the 0.4 in if I wanted to shoot enamels. Recently I have been having issues with my 0.2 needle/nozzle clogging up with Vallejo and Tamiya paint (no matter how thin it was). Not sure where the problem lies. I fitted a new nozzle and checked the needle, but I was still having problems.

So, I just switched to using the 0.4 needle and lowered the pressure a tad. Seems to be working fine. :shrug:

I've had the same problem with my Iwata CR (0,3mm needle set) just recently. I've put it down to the temp in the garage where I spray, its far too cold. Tamiya with cellulose thinners fairs better than MA though.

Roll on the Summer!

Rick.

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I'd better report back on what I did and the results!

After berating my H&S in this thread, I went and ordered a repair kit for it. I gave it a really deep clean and replaced some seals. The needle deal was the one that really needed doing. After all that I've put it back together and it's like new!

I do still have the splattering issue, but I did notice that the needle gaurd seems a little dented on one side so I'm going to replace that and see if that fixes it (I've got a spare somewhere....).

I'm hoping that replacing the needle seal has fixed the slight misalignment and replacing the needle gaurd will stop the paint build up and 'sneeze'.

The ultimate test will be some free hand camo work, once it's warmed up out in the garage a bit!!

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try spraying with out the guard. neither my iwata or badger renegade "need" it, its only a guard. dont ding the needle though!! (dont know about other brushes that might need it to regulate the pattern so check)

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Haveing followed this thread with great interest because as already said I too am a H/S evolution user , and not without problems. So this morning with the little bit of tamiya paint left in the pot thinned it down a bit more I practiced my fine lines on an old scrap model, something I quite often do, well after the usual splutters i tried thining it down a bit more and then spiders everywhere; So then I tried some humbol thinned with celulose, even worse !! '( by the way this was with the 1/15 needle; So hastily cause i had far more important things to do, I found a very very old container of rotring drawing pen ink and hey presto within five minutes i was painting the finest lines possible, relaxed confident, and with ease. So that proves that their is nothing wrong with the airbrush!!;

Now haveng given this a lot of thought, im begining to wonder if i have been going down the wrong track for the last few years, where as i would like most assume that the finer the needle the finer the work. The fine needle stays on the brush for most of the time, and as long as the paint is well thinned i am perfectly satisfied with the results for general spraying, but when it comes down to very fine work the nozzle clogs because being such a small nozzle and working with such a low flow the particles of paint are just not geting through. Where as with the 4 needle even closed right down the paint has no problem going through, and all though the minimum thickness of line is a lot thicker it is thin enough for most modeling work.

Correct me if I am wrong , but i doubt whether theire is one airbrush made specifacly for modelers, and Should say that the fine needle is more for artists and graphic work who are useing far more finely pigmented paints and inks than we do; So after this mornings results i will be doing far more research into the use of inks with my models.

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Both experience & feedback has told me that the 0.2mm needle/nozzle set is the better option for scale modelling, it's more versatile & far more robust than the 0.15mm set.

That's not to say that the 0.15mm set shouldn't be used - it's great for fine detail & can be used in certain situations without masking where the larger sets would require masking. The 0.15mm set is very sensitive to both paint & thinning, I generally use Tamiya acrylic & while some colours work well with the 0.15mm set, not all do.......

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Both experience & feedback has told me that the 0.2mm needle/nozzle set is the better option for scale modelling, it's more versatile & far more robust than the 0.15mm set.

That's not to say that the 0.15mm set shouldn't be used - it's great for fine detail & can be used in certain situations without masking where the larger sets would require masking. The 0.15mm set is very sensitive to both paint & thinning, I generally use Tamiya acrylic & while some colours work well with the 0.15mm set, not all do.......

Quoted for Truth.

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Hi All,

When I started the Hobby again I too bought an airbrush pretty much from the start. It's an H&S Infinity. When i bought it I was actually warned that you have to get the paint/thinner/pressure ratios 100% right,e specsially with the .15 needle.

I had a hard time in the beginning with it, simply to me being a bloody beginner with ABs. But looking at this thread and noticing that even you experienced guys seem to have the odd moment of trouble with that AB / needle combination does make me feel a bit better indeed.

I have since taken a step back and experimented a lot with paints and thinner and am very happy with the Inifinity.

B)

D

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  • 1 month later...

I've just finished reading through this interesting thread since I've had similar splattering problems with my Hansa 381. I've always looked after and maintained the airbrush well so the fact that it's been unreliable has been both bewildering and frustrating. I figured out that there's been a build-up of paint on the rim of the needle guard though I don't know why (something out of alignment maybe, but again - why?) so this morning I simply took the guard off, as suggested, and Hey Presto, perfect results! The airbrush may be due for a "service" and perhaps replacement bits, but for the moment I'm happy to have found a simple solution.

Max

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  • 2 years later...
  • 6 months later...

I have three Harder & Steenbeck.

I count with it i a bought a new nozzle, but i found a damaged nozzle is ideal for high grain pigments colours...

I bought another airbrush - Evolution (predeccesor of Silverline with typical "wasp" marking - with golden and rubber rings.

Have 0.2 nozzle and with this smallest nozzle go good. I think a 0.2 is most ideal.

Lastly i bought an Infinity solo - 0.15... Oh no ! I use Tamiya acrylics and 0.15 probably isn´t ideal for Tamiya :/ have you tip for thinning of Tamiya acrylics for this small nozzle ? I hope i can make a Luftwaffe camouflage with typical snakes (mottling) and speckled camos (with many small dots)with this small nozzle... :( Or this fine nozzle isn´t ideal for Tamiya acrylics ?

For me is ideal very simple disassembly and simple tuning. I have from Evo Silverline 5ml cup...

I found a too - unusual ? - part who called it a "hog nose" - it is a needle protector from Infinity, but have a hole in tip and i think, is useable as difusor or not ?

And what about Tamiya ? I hear a Tamiya is from the same plant as Iwata... (Re-branded/re-boxed Iwata...) But i have now a three airbrush probably don´t buy another new :)

And is useable addition air-tank ? ( I haven´t compresor without air tank.)

Edited by AlCZ
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  • 1 month later...

I have read this whole thread, and I am experiencing similar problems with my new H&S Evolution 2-1.

General spray is ok, but when I try to do fine lines (i.e. Preshading), when I try to get it right at the biting point, the paint seems like it is clogging. I'll get nothing, then a huge blast of paint. I am using the 0.2 needle. The brush is new. I am using a Badger Aspire Pro compressor. I mainly use Vallejo Model Air. I have tried the following:

1. Thinning down of paint all the way to around 80/20 (I use UMP thinner).

2. Adjusting from low to high psi.

3. Thorough cleaning of brush, nozzle, needle.

4. The needle is straight.

5. Adding flow improver.

6. Keeping needle tip clean while spraying.

None of this seems to work. I have yet to try the 0.4 needle, I will try it tonight when I spray the bottom of my plane. I don't think I should be having trouble with the 0.2 needle. Do any of you think I have a defective airbrush?

Edited by Texan76
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Can I suggest you use Vallejo cleaner, thinner and flow improver with the Model air paint and see if you still get the same problem.

You could have a blob of gelled paint in the nozzle. You can back flush this out of the nozzle and inspect the inside of the nozzle.

Paul

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I suspect the Model Air paint doesn't like 0.2mm nozzles rather than the airbrush being faulty. My Iwata Custom Micron 0.23mm doesn't like Vallejo paint at all but happily sprays Tamiya and Mr Color/Hobby.

Duncan B

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I think Duncan's hit the nail on the head here, my infinity is like this even with well thinned Tamiya paint, seems when you doing a lot of fine line work there will be a point when nothing nothing, you pull the trigger back a little more and then splat. I have never got on that well with the H&S trigger for some reason and like the feel of the Iwata more

I don't get it with the Iwata HP-C Plus with a .3 needle and it sprays just as fine a line as the .2 infinity.

It's probably more me than the H&S just find myself picking up the Iwata more for most jobs now

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Update: I changed to the 0.4 needle. I tested out some fine lines and the performance was much better. Hardly any sputtering or clogging. I was actually surprised at how small a line I could get with the 0.4.

My assumption is that perhaps the pigments of the Vallejo Air paint are too large to do fine work with the 0.2 needle. Curious to see how other brand paints perform with it.

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When I first stocked H&S one of the first thing I did was have the nozzle sizes checked to make sure there wasn't a problem.

And I have a lot of customers using the 0.2mm nozzles without any problem.

Again, I suggest that you try the manufacturers recommended cleaner, thinner and flow Improver to see if that helps.

I have had a number of customers that use Tamiya and model air paints that have had a problem with Model air.

The X20A thinners isn't compatible with model air and a trace of it left over from painting with Tamiya can cause the paint to gel and eventually clog the nozzle. This could be happening with other third party thinners as well.

Paul

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When I first stocked H&S one of the first thing I did was have the nozzle sizes checked to make sure there wasn't a problem.

And I have a lot of customers using the 0.2mm nozzles without any problem.

Again, I suggest that you try the manufacturers recommended cleaner, thinner and flow Improver to see if that helps.

I have had a number of customers that use Tamiya and model air paints that have had a problem with Model air.

The X20A thinners isn't compatible with model air and a trace of it left over from painting with Tamiya can cause the paint to gel and eventually clog the nozzle. This could be happening with other third party thinners as well.

Paul

Thanks for your insight. I do use the Vallejo cleaner, but I will go today and buy their own thinner and flow improver, as I have been using supposed "universal" brands. As far as the gelling of Tamiya x-20 and model air, I don't think that is the issue because I do not mix them, plus I have the problem with a perfectly clean brush. I have completely cleaned out the nozzle with brushes and the little needle reamer.

I'm going to spray a coat tonight, so I'll go get the Vallejo thinner and give it a test. Thanks again.

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I think Duncan's hit the nail on the head here, my infinity is like this even with well thinned Tamiya paint, seems when you doing a lot of fine line work there will be a point when nothing nothing, you pull the trigger back a little more and then splat. I have never got on that well with the H&S trigger for some reason and like the feel of the Iwata more

I don't get it with the Iwata HP-C Plus with a .3 needle and it sprays just as fine a line as the .2 infinity.

It's probably more me than the H&S just find myself picking up the Iwata more for most jobs now

My Iwata HP-CH is my workhorse that I use 90% of the time (5% Eclipse and 5% Custom Micron for the rest), I really wouldn't be without it now and would recommend one to any modeller.

Duncan B

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