Preshading for black paint?

[mhaselden]

There was an article on Hyperscale a while back where someone painted a Beaufighter model using, IIRC, dark blue, dark red and yellow-brown, with each layer misted. It produced a "black" finish with some interesting and very subtle shading. Unfortunately, I can't find the article now...bluddy typical! Sorry I can't be more help.

[datguy]

That Beaufighter is by the amazingly talented Mark Smith. I've seen it in person and it is astounding. The discussion is at http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1317648699/Black+No+Black+-+BEAUFIGHTER+Update

DG

[mhaselden]

Thanks DG. You proved I wasn't making it all up! It is an amazing model and Mark's innovative way of painting it "black" was, IMHO, outstanding. Wish I had the talent and patience to attempt anything so finessed!

[Aidrian]

A couple of things might be relevant

"Night" as used on nightfighters and bomber undersurfaces is not black but a mix of black and ultramarine, making it a very dark blue in theory. However the slightly warm tone to pigments based on lamp black would also tend to affect the resulting colour, making for a more neutral appearance.

You can simulate lightly weathered black by mixing a very dark brown such as burnt umber with a very dark blue. This looks to my eye more like black than any plain dark grey can ever do - it looks "black" under diffuse daylight or display case lighting until you see it against a plain unmodified black, The overall effect isn't unlike the Beaufighter mentioned above, but is perhaps a little less complicated to apply, and it can be post- or pre-shaded with black or a darker version of the same colour

[CPNGROATS]

Very nice discussion...some good ideas/techniques..........

[Ossian]

This has given me a lot to think about, and the Mossie has got near the stage where it will be needed (unfortunately, work as an itinerant IT consultant has restarted after Xmas so <deity> knows when I will move on with it...)

Thought now (comments welcome) is to

1) bring out panel lines (mainly on cowlings plus a few on fuselage) with matt black

2) add a little bit of brown and spray main coat

3) very light coat of matt black overall

With luck that will look reasonable.

I looked at the NATO Black and it seems too grey to suit the aircraft -- tyres should look good in it, though

Edited January 6, 2013 by Ossian

[Miggers]

There's very,very few panel lines on a Mossie fuselage either Ossie.

I think you'll find that the main one is the cockpit access door.

[Nick Millman]

Well, it's your model but I believe the idea of brown is leading you away from the true appearance of Night.

In response to Aidrian the pigmentation of Night was already explained in post # 17. Mixing a representation of Night from pigments inimical to the original is artistic rather than scientific. Carbon black is not burnt umber and ultramarine is not dark blue - it is a bright blue in synthetic form. When mixed with red shade carbon black the result is not brownish but a deep purplish-blue like the colour of an aubergine. When mixed with blue shade carbon black the result is a very dark greyish blue. Watching the contemporary colour film Night Bombers (available on You Tube) there is the impression of both those hues . The samples I have are consistent with that - a black with a slightly blueish reflectivity - nothing brownish about it at all.

Comparing it to the FS595B deck the colour is not as blue as 35044 but not as black as the closest equivalent 37030 (@ 3.0 where less than 2.0 equals a close match). The Munsell value is around 9 B 2/0 which is a very dark blue and this is consistent with the values (and appearance) of the current BS 381C 642 Night which is exactly similar to the wartime colour. The measured wartime MAP swatch is close to FS 27040 @ 2.93 and this is almost identical to a prop blade in my possession when cleaned. The bluish reflectivity can only be discerned under certain angles and light. The surface chalking of the extenders and matting agents in the applied paint could be expected to produce a slightly more greyish appearance on an aircraft in service for several months.

Nick

Edited January 6, 2013 by Nick Millman

[chadders]

I find the whole notion of "black looks too stark" ridiculous. We don't say that about white or yellow. I'd paint it standard flat black as a base and then weather it with pigments, filters or spraying patches of lightened base over it. It's not like the blokes painting these things said "you know what Barry, I think black will look to stark on this aircraft, lets paint it really dark grey". Anyway, here are some colour pics of aircraft with black on them, you can make up your own mind.

The old adage "paint what you see, not what you think you see" is never truer, and you've proved that with the second picture. Your looking at that picture and saying "that is black". Sorry but it isn't, it's grey. Go outside and look at a car tyre. Is that black? No its not, its gray. Look at real F-117A, is it black? No far, far from it.

[Stuck]

Well there won't be many panel lines on a mossie as they are made predominately out of wood.

As for black aircraft, check out this Heinkel 111, it's so black it could be dating one of the Kardashians.

While I am not an experienced enough modeler to argue the rights and wrongs post and pre shadeing etc etc, and what is black and what is not; what I do know is that as much as they can be a valuable source for research , one should never rely on the color definition of these old photos too much because one has to remember that at the time of the second world war color photography was still in its infancy. Knowing a little bit more about photography than I do about models, depending on what time of day the picture was taken will affect the hue; In the Heinkel 111 pic everything seems too black, and in the other one it seems to have far too much magenta and cyan, maybe if one knew the exact colour of the overalls then they could put it in photo shop and re ajust it and maybe then you could see what colour the black actually was.

On reading about the scale effect of black in the first book I brought on painting models the very well known author suggested a 50/50 mix of black and red brown, and went on to say trust me it does look right, well I took his word for it and when i finished my Lysander it looked terrible like brown with a bit of black in it; I have long learnt my lesson, and while agree that black is too stark it only needs the slightest bit of toning.