Dambuster AJ-Z "Zebra" Revell 1/72 - Finished at last !

[woody37]

Thanks Steve

Got round to doing some pics tonight, not much progress but it is still drip feeding along. I've masked the area where the mid upper fairing goes, pictures I've seen on't net appear to show evidence of one being previously fitted so my plan was to add a light grey panel toning over the top of the base colour to give a subtle paint variation. By doing this around the masking, I'm hoping to create the look seen on pics. The front turret is mostly done now ready for painting. Bloody fiddly job !

Thanks for staying interested

Cheers

[chaddy]

I'm loving that front turret Neil!

Cheers

[perdu]

The turret is just magical, never seen a better one

fabbo stuff Neil

[Jonny]

Neil,

I read somewher - can't remember where, I'm afraid, that at least some of the 'Dams Lancs' had metal plating over where the MU turret had been, and the joints sealed with red doped tape. I can't guarantee this is accurate.

Jonny

[woody37]

Thanks guys, has some fun and swear words rolled into building the turret he he !!

Still got the challenge of fitting the gubbins into the vac part and painting the framework, so I'll figure out the best way this evening I hope.

Jonny, That would be interesting, would certainly break up the paintwork a bit. The picture I've seen has the area fully painted over, but it isn't great. I could add a red ring to simulate what you've discussed. Without any defining pictures of AJ-Z which ever way it ends up will be correct...glass half full perspective !!!!!!

[Jonny]

Neil,

I was thinking about this after I posted.

I **think** the Lanc had a circular hole for the turret, but the fairing around it (which carried the 'taboo' ring) might have been rivetted round it. In other words, there would be a circular plate over the turret aperture, and the area where the fairing went might have had the red dope paint.

All this is conjecture and I don't KNOW. I don't want to mislead you. I like your glass-half-full analogy!

The front turret looks fantastic, by the way. No it doesn't ... it's awesome! A brilliant piece of work.

[chaddy]

Neil,

I was thinking about this after I posted.

I **think** the Lanc had a circular hole for the turret, but the fairing around it (which carried the 'taboo' ring) might have been rivetted round it. In other words, there would be a circular plate over the turret aperture, and the area where the fairing went might have had the red dope paint.

All this is conjecture and I don't KNOW. I don't want to mislead you. I like your glass-half-full analogy!

The front turret looks fantastic, by the way. No it doesn't ... it's awesome! A brilliant piece of work.

If anyone has access to AVRO drawing ID366 ("Top Cover"), I think the answer will be found there.

Cheers

[turnerdad]

Looking awesome!

[woody37]

Here's the picture I'm referring too, there's some discolouring around where the fairing edged to, hard to say whether it's weathering or perhaps repaint with fresh unfased colour ???

Also, that front turret definitley looks silver inside.

[perdu]

I think the front turret is silver inside and looking at the fuselage on "Charley" the patch looks near enough to the green along the top of the fuselage not to be red doped.

Some of the colour variations behind the cockpit look exactly the same as the "ringed area" to me. You would think they would try to preserve camouflage before such an important raid wouldn't you.

CAN OF WRIGGLY THINGS mate

bill

[Smiffy]

Here's the picture I'm referring too, there's some discolouring around where the fairing edged to, hard to say whether it's weathering or perhaps repaint with fresh unfased colour ???

That looks like ED817, which was one of the 3 initial prototype aircraft which were used for trials. I have a picture of her from the other side and that staining seems to match up.

She shouldn't be confused with ED910, which was the aircraft coded AJ-C that flew on the raid (ED817 was delivered to 617 after the raid, to replace 910, which had been lost)

Without checking further, I'm a bit unclear if these 3 prototype 464 Lancs were modified from existing airframes which would have originally had the mid upper in place already. If so, then that may explain the fresh paint/primer patch around the removed fairing.

The aircraft which were delivered later were all new machines (presumably factory modified), but the Lancaster was built from 31 sub assemblies, which were delivered to an assembly plant in a pre-painted state and with the turrets installed.

Presumably, they all would have been assembled from these standard components, therefore would all have needed some paint work after the removal of the turrets and fairings. Of course, we are literally talking factory fresh paint here, so the re-painted areas would probably not be as obvious as on an older machine, which had been exposed to the elements for a certain amount of time (like ED817, maybe?).

Just some food for thought.

Can open... worms everywhere!.

[MetroRacing]

Sorry to drag up an old point but I believe that one of the aircraft used on the raid was fitted with the Ventral gun.

I seemed to remember a channel 5 documentary on it. With the aircraft being coded AJ-T and was one of the prototype dambuster aircraft.

I think there was a picture of it posted earlier in the thread, the one with no codes on it and went on to become AJ-T.

[Honeybee]

Metro

AJ T had the mount for fitting the gun for sure but not too sure it was fitted for the raid.

Regards

Paul

[woody37]

How I'd love to go back in time and visit that Lanc factory, great photo smiffy.

Metroracing, I remember that documentary too and have seen reference to the installation of the gun mount, but as Paul mentioned, whether a gun was carried god knows. Flying at 100ft, it seems a pretty pointless carriage of weight other than for returning small arms fire which the rear gunner could do much more effectively.

I think the front turret is silver inside and looking at the fuselage on "Charley" the patch looks near enough to the green along the top of the fuselage not to be red doped.

Some of the colour variations behind the cockpit look exactly the same as the "ringed area" to me. You would think they would try to preserve camouflage before such an important raid wouldn't you.

CAN OF WRIGGLY THINGS mate

bill

It does make for a more interesting paint job though, gives the excuse to apply some weathering !!!!

[chaddy]

Sorry to drag up an old point but I believe that one of the aircraft used on the raid was fitted with the Ventral gun.

I seemed to remember a channel 5 documentary on it. With the aircraft being coded AJ-T and was one of the prototype dambuster aircraft.

I think there was a picture of it posted earlier in the thread, the one with no codes on it and went on to become AJ-T.

As you say the photograph shows the ventral gun on the uncoded aircraft. After trials at Boscombe Down (with the gun fitted), it was delivered to Scampton on 16th May, and presumably coded AJ-T there.

As far as I'm aware there is no definitive proof that it took part in Operation Chastise with the gun fitted. That isn't to say it didn't, but I think a photograph of it coded and with the gun fitted is the only way of "proving" it did. Unless somebody knows something........................

Cheers

Edited January 26, 2013 by chaddy

[MetroRacing]

Well i only mentioned it because to me, when I saw the documentary it gave me the impression that the aircraft carried the gun on the raid.

And I don't remember the guy they spoke to who flew the plane on the raid discounting the fitment of the guns.

But without proof I admitt it can't be proven. However I think it would make an interesting model to show the gun installed.

Apologies for creating a stir, I don't want this to hijack the thread and detract from a excellent build of the raids lesser know aircraft. (To me at least)

[Honeybee]

Metro

No worries. As leader of the Bomber Commamd SIG I am co-ordinating a build of all the Lancs on the raid for display at model shows throughout the year, of which Woodys is one. Our American member built AJ T for us and I think he put the gun and mount on his model, mainly 'cos he wanted to and it couldn't be disproved,

Regards

Paul

[woody37]

Well i only mentioned it because to me, when I saw the documentary it gave me the impression that the aircraft carried the gun on the raid.

And I don't remember the guy they spoke to who flew the plane on the raid discounting the fitment of the guns.

But without proof I admitt it can't be proven. However I think it would make an interesting model to show the gun installed.

Apologies for creating a stir, I don't want this to hijack the thread and detract from a excellent build of the raids lesser know aircraft. (To me at least)

Please don't take any responses as critisism, your input is most helpful, the amount of times I've built a kit wrong (probably every single one lol, for example my Stirling Mk.I/III hybrid !!!) only to find out later in the progress through such inputs, it's all healthy discussion

Just noticed too, a warm welcome to Britmodeller mate

[chaddy]

Well i only mentioned it because to me, when I saw the documentary it gave me the impression that the aircraft carried the gun on the raid.

And I don't remember the guy they spoke to who flew the plane on the raid discounting the fitment of the guns.

But without proof I admitt it can't be proven. However I think it would make an interesting model to show the gun installed.

Apologies for creating a stir, I don't want this to hijack the thread and detract from a excellent build of the raids lesser know aircraft. (To me at least)

I hope you didn't think my reply was in any way a criticism. We're all here to share what knowledge we have, raise points of interest, join in any discussion that ensues and generally help each other.

There are a number of long running discussions going on in the forums about various subjects, and it's amazing what comes to light when people use it as a stimulus to further reasearch. I can offhand think about half a dozen topics which regularly turn up and each time somebody has something new to add. So feel free to air any topic you wish.

Enjoy your time on Britmodeller.

Cheers

[HOUSTON]

Exemplary workmanship.

[Smiffy]

Well i only mentioned it because to me, when I saw the documentary it gave me the impression that the aircraft carried the gun on the raid.

And I don't remember the guy they spoke to who flew the plane on the raid discounting the fitment of the guns.

But without proof I admitt it can't be proven. However I think it would make an interesting model to show the gun installed.

Apologies for creating a stir, I don't want this to hijack the thread and detract from a excellent build of the raids lesser know aircraft. (To me at least)

I believe that was the "Last Dambuster" programme, which featured Johnnie Johnson ( the bomb aimer ). As I remember it, they identified the wreckage thanks to that unique belly gun cradle.

No stir created here, at all. I think you'll find we all appreciate these kind of in depth build threads, where numerous people chip in with all sorts of info.

Welcome aboard.

[MetroRacing]

Thanks guys for the welcomes, btw I didn't take any comments as a critism.

I just assumed it was documented that at least one dambuster carried the ventral guns, because I remembered a program on it.

Obviously I should have looked into it more. But who really knows, especially as I believe AJ-T wasn't supposed to go on the raid.

I read somewhere it was a last minute replacment for AJ-Q which had mechanical problems.

[woody37]

One thing I've learned since starting this build that the aircraft appear seem to have a great many minor variations between them, all the more interesting for us modellers I guess

[chaddy]

Thanks guys for the welcomes, btw I didn't take any comments as a critism.

I just assumed it was documented that at least one dambuster carried the ventral guns, because I remembered a program on it.

Obviously I should have looked into it more. But who really knows, especially as I believe AJ-T wasn't supposed to go on the raid.

I read somewhere it was a last minute replacment for AJ-Q which had mechanical problems.

AJ-T ((ED825) was the third prototype. It was delivered to Scampton on 16th May 1943, and prepared as a spare aircraft. It was not fitted with altimeter spotlights. It was used as a last minute replacement when AG-Q (ED915) became u/s.

Cheers

[sprue]

Here's the picture I'm referring too, there's some discolouring around where the fairing edged to, hard to say whether it's weathering or perhaps repaint with fresh unfased colour ???

Also, that front turret definitley looks silver inside.

Hi Neil

This is an interesting thread not only for the model which is lovely but the snippets re the Lancasters which come to light. I think this is AJ-C ED817 which was the 2nd prototype but wasn't used on the Dams Raid. I can't be sure but it looks as if the /G is missing from the serial number. If this is ED817 the well used look is explained by the fact it was a trials aircraft and therefore flew many more hours than the operational ones many of which were only delivered almost at the last minute.

It also seems to have an anti-shimmy tail wheel that suggests this photograph might have been taken long after the raid when anti-shimmy tail wheels became standard either as a modification or production line standard.

Anyway I'm enjoying your build.

Mike