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horrido109

New 1/48 Revell Mig-29

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Hi,

Does anyone know if the new Revell 1/48 Mig-29 is a re-boxing of another brand or a totally new tooled kit? The internet is very vague about it except that it is due for release in Feb 2013 and that the kit number is 5865. HLJ has it on pre-order for about GBP 23-00.

Edited by horrido109

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It's the Monogram kit. In a different universe even from the wildly inaccurate Academy kit, and not in a good way. Save your shekels and get the GWH kit.

Edited by Jennings Heilig

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It's the Monogram kit. In a different universe even from the wildly inaccurate Academy kit, and not in a good way. Save your shekels and get the GWH kit.

Thanks for the info Jennings

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Can't understand why Monogram has done such a lousy job on their Mig-29, even though they had the best sources as references (The USAF had purchased from a third-country a few Fulcrums).

I agree with Jennings, go for the GWH kit.

Cheers

Sernak

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Can't understand why Monogram has done such a lousy job on their Mig-29, even though they had the best sources as references (The USAF had purchased from a third-country a few

When did Monogram release the kit ? 1988 (according to the Modeling Madness review) . When did the MiG-29 first appear in a Western airshow ? September 1988 in Farnborough. Monogram did a perfect job given the available info at the time.

Edited by Laurent

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It was done strictly from photos published in places like AW&ST and Janes. The Fulcrum first appeared in the west (and was extensively photographed) in Finland in July 1986.

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Giorgio wrote

''I can't believe how a company like Revell could rebox a similar kit....''

Boy i can !!!

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I can't believe how a company like Revell could rebox a similar kit....

Not reboxed, these are Revell-owned molds (as are all Monogram repops). Revell's just repoping something old and less than accurate from their own molds. Happens all the time (Heck, Airfix regularly repops their even less accurate 1/72 Il-2 regularly).

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They could just make a new mold. Just see how fast the Chinese are making them, which by the way don't have the best resources available well, at least for some of their models.

Cheers

Sernak

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They could just make a new mold. Just see how fast the Chinese are making them, which by the way don't have the best resources available well, at least for some of their models.

Cheers

Sernak

That takes a fair amount of effort to do, and two to three years of lead time, a repop takes 6 months to a year (depending on if the decals are new designs, and most of that time remains shipping time and lead time to get the molds in the production queue). I wouldn't be shocked to see Revell do a new-tool MiG-29 in 1/48 someday, but they'll also happily milk a set of good-condition molds which produce a kit which sells well, despite it being awful in terms of accuracy. The toy/art store set don't care and they buy the most of the Revellogram kits. Remember that Revell produces much larger runs than those Chinese companies for the most part, given Revell's much larger retail footprint. So Revell's molds either wear fast or must be of higher quality in order to handle the larger runs.

Edited by Adam Maas

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That takes a fair amount of effort to do, and two to three years of lead time, a repop takes 6 months to a year (depending on if the decals are new designs, and most of that time remains shipping time and lead time to get the molds in the production queue). I wouldn't be shocked to see Revell do a new-tool MiG-29 in 1/48 someday, but they'll also happily milk a set of good-condition molds which produce a kit which sells well, despite it being awful in terms of accuracy. The toy/art store set don't care and they buy the most of the Revellogram kits. Remember that Revell produces much larger runs than those Chinese companies for the most part, given Revell's much larger retail footprint. So Revell's molds either wear fast or must be of higher quality in order to handle the larger runs.

Hi Adam,

I totally agree with you. Yes, it does take a rather long time to produce a new model but, as you're noticing, it plays a great role on how a company/brand, defines itself. Revell, obviously defines itself as a toy maker and not as an expert in scale modelling. This is one of the reasons for so many decades we were experiencing scale models of average quality (if not low quality products), with sparse details if any at all.

But, if you want to win and keep your loyal clients you should create products of unique quality that can stand out in the specific market. See for example, the excellent work they have done with their Eurofighter Typhoon, P-47, and other scale models.

Now, I don't know if Revell produces a rather larger retail footprint than let's say, Hobby Boss and/or Trumpeter, and honestly I haven't thought about it because I see this company as a scale modelling producer and not a toy manufacturer.

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Hi Adam,

I totally agree with you. Yes, it does take a rather long time to produce a new model but, as you're noticing, it plays a great role on how a company/brand, defines itself. Revell, obviously defines itself as a toy maker and not as an expert in scale modelling. This is one of the reasons for so many decades we were experiencing scale models of average quality (if not low quality products), with sparse details if any at all.

But, if you want to win and keep your loyal clients you should create products of unique quality that can stand out in the specific market. See for example, the excellent work they have done with their Eurofighter Typhoon, P-47, and other scale models.

Now, I don't know if Revell produces a rather larger retail footprint than let's say, Hobby Boss and/or Trumpeter, and honestly I haven't thought about it because I see this company as a scale modelling producer and not a toy manufacturer.

Revell isn't a Toy Maker, but rather a mass market scale model kit maker. Of the other companies in the market, only Airfix is really in this side of the market (although it is clear that Trumpeter/HobbyBoss is trying to break in with their Easy Kit line). So Revell repops a fair number of kits that are of less interest to the specialist side of the market but sell well in mass market retail. Airfix does much the same.

Don't forget that many of the kits Revell sells into this market were once regarded as some of the best kits of the subject (and some remain in that class). Revell's new releases are high quality, but they do not hold back from repoping old molds, be they accurate or inaccurate, if the subjects will sell. Unfortunately the MiG-29 is one of the lesser kits in their lineup and one that hasn't stood the test of time, unlike say their 1/48 F-4C/D kit (which is aimed at the same market)

There's a big difference between the scale model specialist companies like Hasegawa, Tamiya, Trumpeter or Eduard and Airfix & Revell. And even the specialist often repop old and inaccurate kits (or new and inaccurate in the case of Trumpeter).

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Revell isn't a Toy Maker

Go on http://www.revell.de/ and look under "Produkte"... there isn't only a "Modellbau" entry but also R/C stuff, slot cars, etc.

Edited by Laurent

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Go on http://www.revell.de/ and look under "Produkte"... there isn't only a "Modellbau" entry but also R/C stuff, slot cars, etc.

Better to go to Revell.com. Remember that slot cars and RC stuff aren't really toys anymore (like model airplanes, they've evolved out of the toy market to be an adult hobby). They do have a small line of toy airplanes (the sort that actually fly) but that's a tiny fraction of their line, the slot cars are all scale models and the RC stuff is a mix of model and original items for RoG, Revell US only offers a single RC Helo.

Revell/Revell of Germany/Monogram are pretty much the scale model brands of Hobbico, but Hobbico is primarily an RC company (as Tamiya is) with sidelines in rockets & plastic scale models (and smaller ones in slot cars, puzzles & games, etc, under various brands).

Edited by Adam Maas

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Revell isn't a Toy Maker, but rather a mass market scale model kit maker. Of the other companies in the market, only Airfix is really in this side of the market (although it is clear that Trumpeter/HobbyBoss is trying to break in with their Easy Kit line). So Revell repops a fair number of kits that are of less interest to the specialist side of the market but sell well in mass market retail. Airfix does much the same.

Don't forget that many of the kits Revell sells into this market were once regarded as some of the best kits of the subject (and some remain in that class). Revell's new releases are high quality, but they do not hold back from repoping old molds, be they accurate or inaccurate, if the subjects will sell. Unfortunately the MiG-29 is one of the lesser kits in their lineup and one that hasn't stood the test of time, unlike say their 1/48 F-4C/D kit (which is aimed at the same market)

There's a big difference between the scale model specialist companies like Hasegawa, Tamiya, Trumpeter or Eduard and Airfix & Revell. And even the specialist often repop old and inaccurate kits (or new and inaccurate in the case of Trumpeter).

Hi Adam,

That's a rather interesting perspective you have posted.

My post was regarding how Revell likes to perceive itself through time and not just in a specific market let's say, such as the British but, in other countries too. This is evidence, at least from my experience, when I was visiting toy stores that were selling Revell's scale model kits and not expert stores such as, Hannants.

At some point you're saying that, "Don't forget that many of the kits Revell sells into this market were once regarded as some of the best kits of the subject". Can you tell me from the past decades and not the recent one (2000-2010), which kits do you consider to have been the best of their subject? All, I can remember is, sparse detail in the cockpit, raised panel lines, limited or even inaccurate detail on the landing gears and gears' bays, and others, which had made me if not forced me, to go and buy more expensive scale model kits from brands such as, Hasegawa, Tamiya, Fujimi, and others.

Not to mention the fact - and this is one of the parameters that constitutes Revell as a toy maker, the notion they were trying to pass to children and teenagers through their unjustified large boxes, that they were buying something really big and "fancy" (this is marketing mambo jambo bull....).

Of course, this marketing image has changed in the past decade, with scale model kits that can easily stand aside their equivalent from Hasegawa and other brands.

All I'm saying, is that with their timeless experience and presence in our expert market, they could invest in producing an accurate kit of the Mig-29 and not another re-pop of the Monogram kit. I'm not saying that it's not a good kit. It's just needs a lot of work in order to produce an accurate representation of the specific aircraft.

Cheers

Sernak

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Sernak:

Hawker Typhoon 1b (1/48), F-4C/D and F-4J (1/72 & 1/48), P-51D (1/48), P-47D (Razorback & Bubbletop) 1/48, P-47N (1/48), F7F Tigercat (1/72), the F-105 series in 1/72 & 1/48, F-15A, P-40B (1/48), F-14A (Monogram tooling, not Revell, 1/48), F-82 (1/72), F-104G (1/48). All of these are 70's & early 80's tools, some of which are still considered among the better options today, including the Typhoon, F-4's, P-47's, F-104G and the F-15A which remains the best shaped F-15A/C in 1/48.

For newer tools you have the 1/48 F-15E from the early 90's (the absolute standard for Strike Eagle kits in any scale) among many, many others. Quite a number of the 'Good' modern Revell kits are actually 90's toolings rather than from post 2000.

Remember that while those kits were considered sparsely detailed by 90's standards, they were at the peak of what was being produced in the 70's and early 80's. If you want to see really sparse detail, look at 70's and 80's Hasegawa 1/72 kits or 70's Tamiya.

Edited by Adam Maas

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What you can honestly say about the Revell (neh Monogram) kits is that their cockpits were detailed at a time when everyone else was operating at little more than man-seat-stick levels (Hasegawa) with sometimes a decaled tub (ESCI).

 

Past that, they are completely out of quality competition with the types of kits coming out of Asia now.  This includes some of their 'top sellers' like the F-15E which continues to flip-flop between the un-weaponed variant for the home market and the full weaponed ROG blue-box version for the European one with a difference of a single sprue and 30 vs. 55 dollars in price tag.  This is _ridiculous_ when you consider that the Revell F-15E has always been plagued by that silly 'half wing' feature which in fact leads to a major mal-adjustment in port vs. starboard twist and levelling due to the conical camber effects while doing nothing to remove the seam visibility from upper surface visibility.

 

Bang, the GWH model comes on the market and the Revell kit is (rightly) displaced from top position because the difference between 55 and 80 dollars for either is pointless as either price excludes the majority of the market.

 

The F-14 is a similar disaster.  As released, it falls in the 18-22 dollar price range which is a fair price but you have such massively distorted molds as results in 2mm high lifts in the undernose insert and a gap behind the radome due to fuselage mismatches as well as unavoidably large blowouts in the forward fuselage side and inlet seams and frontal radome curveature that is grossly inaccurate compared to the real airframe.  Add to this over-thick wings which literally split the glove seams when glued around them and gets worse through rotation of the variable geometry effect (no modeler in their right minds makes a workable toy out of a kit btw.).  Never mind raised panel lines which literally disappear under the heavy duty application of sanding sticks and CA needed to get it all to stay together in a smoothly contoured external shape.

 

What does Revell do to fix this?  Nothing.  The base kit is unsaveable.  But they do listen to my advice (or someone's) and craft a sprue which has all the missing features of the 1980s period tooling: 267 gallon tanks, TCS, TARPS, AAQ-25, ALQ-167, JDAM, GBU-12, 500lb bombs, four AIM-7 Sparrow and a proper set of main instrument panels.  Now, modelers who love the Revell for it's pricepoint as a leap off for squadron decaling and have the skills and tools to fix the flaws come back to the nostalgic memories, even if they have the 2-3 of the original kits _because_ the new model doesn't require them to purchase 10+6+6+6+12 dollars of minimum fixups in the Master, Steel Beach and Royale Resin lineup of replacement nose probe, gun doors, TCS, bagged Nozzles and tanks, lipsticking a pig for the equivalent price of a Hasegawa or Hobby Boss.

 

Indeed, you can split out the weapons over 2-3 kits and so save yourself a lot of hassle on weapons sets as well. 

 

And then having enjoyed exceptional sales as well as a slight price increase to 25 dollars, what does Revell do?  The nix the entire line (F-14A, F-14B, F-14D) line and go back to producing their preceeding non-event kits which are almost exactly the same as their 1980s versions by actively disincluding the sprues which make it competitive.

 

Young modelers with internet exposure to the quality achieved by master builders want what they see on the web in terms of outcomes.  They don't always get it for want of a lack of tools but when you give them Revell kits that actively sabotage the build with lousy fit and inaccurate parts, you are SABOTAGING that segment of the market.  And older buyers no longer have cause to turn to the Revell kit with a scriber and a sigh for economic reasons because it basically has none of the features which make it a late-series service aircraft.

 

I fear Revell is operating less under an economic model than either a Judeo Christian restriction against accurate portrayal of weaponized aircraft or G8 inhibition against competing with overpriced kits coming out of Asia.  Given that the 90 dollar Tamiya is essentially a recessed line Monogram equivalent with better fit and a separate nose, you have to wonder at the massive and blatant economic miss-step inherent to a company that will not even adhere to it's bottom line need for profit.  Preferring self-sabotage to niche-within-niche appropriate business strategies.

 

This is what a lack of home market production (price point set by Chinese production lines) and competition between TWO or more major production houses ultimately means.  Loss of interest in sustaining a competitive market.

 

IF Revell were really interested:

 

1.  1/48 F-35 (without Kitty Hawk's silly subassemblies and warped airfoils)

2.  1/48 F-22 (sans steampunk RAM)

3.  1/48  T-6 Texan II (better than the shortrun Ibex/Isracast kits with their total lack of detail and vac canopies)

4.  1/72 scale down of the B-1B from the 1/48th

5.  1/72 scale B-2A.

6.  1/48 modernized A-10 without all the flaws of the Hobbyboss and Italeri as far as shape and weapons loads.

7.  1/48 T-50 'Russian ATF'  Completely ignored market segment.

8.  1/48 F-15C Modernized Tooling, cheaper than the GWH.

9.  1/48 F-16C Modernized Tooling, less parts than the Tamiya.

 

Instead, the only people making kits are the Revell Germany branch.  And they are doing so with Star Wars licensing and giant 1/32 scale kits that nobody can afford.

 

It's self-destructive, it's stupid.

Edited by Hit Or Miss

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Kinetic didn't issue a 1/48 F-35, I think you mean Kittyhawk.

Edited by Mike
Removing unnecessary quote

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The people that make these decisions on rereleasing a kit, more than likely wouldn't know the difference between a MiG-29 and an A-6 Intruder. Some bright spark is looking through some paperwork and notes that the MiG-29 hasn't been rereleased in some time, he makes a couple of phone calls, and there we go, getting this long outdated kit... <_<

Edited by Don McIntyre

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Some month ago I had the chance to visit RoG's headquarter in Bünde/Germany (BTW: you would be disappointed to see this, it's more or less a garage company with some warehouse - no production in Germany anymore).

The Technical Manager, Uli Taubert (meanwhile retired AFAIK) told us, that 1/48 does not play a role for Revell in Europe as this is a market in Far East and America. They will never come with any new MiG-29 in any scale (he said, there are so many...). The main market for RoG is UK and these guys want to have large BoB (or other WWII stuff) planes. After the 262 series in 32 they will come with "something we had in the past" (Beaufighter? Seafire? no idea). One thing is very clear - RoG is not a rich company and w/o Hobbico they had been disappeared! Their ressources to develop new kits are VERY limited (financial and human), so - of course - they have to focus on things, they can earn money. This is primarily rereleases of their old kits (Monogram and even Matchbox) - a license to print money! On the other hand, it's RC and Fantasy. Bad news for a Quarterscaler...

Edited by Floggerman

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48th scale plays a more important role on the UK market than in Germany where 72nd and surprisingly 32nd are dominant. This is reflected by the decisions for new products. There is not a No and Never for 48th as the Tornado has shown. If a 48th product is chosen it will have a relation with the market. This is not restricted to aircraft. If you let pass by the new products released over the last decade you will discover the influence and importance of the UK market. The Shack and the London Bus may be an example. So there might be some surprises in the future.

 

In my opinion the main question for the further development of Revell will be how they will react to the increasing number of high end kits which are mainly produced by Asian brands.

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35 minutes ago, ABeck said:

In my opinion the main question for the further development of Revell will be how they will react to the increasing number of high end kits which are mainly produced by Asian brands.

 

I guess they will move to other product groups - this is already visible. If I would be responsible for the profit margin, I'd do the same.

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