corporate Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "What about the fabled underground Strategic Reserve of steam locos..?" Apparently parked up in a tunnel in a hillside near the old Chorley (Lancashire) munitions factory, if i had a look out the top office window at work i may even be able to see them! There are (or were at one time) rumours of a similar buried hoard of US Army stuff from WW2 in a tunnel not a million miles from Newton Abbot. It's not inconceivable, since there were very large numbers of US forces in South Devon during WW2, but it's not quite as obscure as Burma and one tends to think it would be hard to "lose" a great pile of military hardware in our crowded little island. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Rumours persisted for years of a huge cavern under RAF Burtonwood brim full of ex US surplus. Most of the site has been comprehensively redeveloped and nothing found. Sorry guys but no buried B-36! Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampie Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Am I missing something, but seeing as how there are Warbirds flying around today that are essentially a new build around an original data plate, even if thats the only thing recovered apart from scrap alluminium wouldn't that mean that restorers will have the opportunity to add more airworthy "original" Spits to the inventory and as such means the expedition is a resounding success? Nige http://56thfightergroup.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I stand ready to be a fifth columnist. Ooh,you turncoat you. But then again I'm not surprised,you'll do anything to get your sticky mitts on a Spitfire you will :tease: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Rumours persisted for years of a huge cavern under RAF Burtonwood brim full of ex US surplus. There's a similar rumour about US WW2 aircraft crated up and buried at Honington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 There's a similar rumour about US WW2 aircraft crated up and buried at Honington. Oooh...but why would the US. Wanna do that in the UK if WE were allies...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Oooh...but why would the US. Wanna do that in the UK if WE were allies...? The story goes that it was cheaper to dig a hole and bury 'em than it was to ship 'em back to the States and scrap 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Uncle Sam has a habit of liming stuff buried in pits, so it's useless. Funny lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomvixen Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ah, the true Holy Grail of aviation archaeology; to find an aeroplane with intact paint! I keep hoping (dreaming) that someone in Siberia will find an Il-2 perfectly-preserved in ice, thereby answering some of the colour questions which have bedevilled VVS modellers for decades. But I'll still settle for some well-preserved Spitfire Mk.XIV's. Regards, Jason P.S. I'm sure the panel lines will be overdone. If only that were true Jason! Recently I posted some photo's (not here though I should have) of some unsullied area's of the mythical "Hawker yellow" on our Sea Fury, basically to prove that it wasn't, as many armchair experts" had proclaimed, a British version of Zinc Chromate but an entirely different and unique colour. The response? One told me I'm a twit because it was obviously ZC that had been faded by the engine, another pompously announced that I was indeed a twit and it couldn't possibly be anything other than faded ZC and that evil Bristol Centaurus thing had evilly been fading paint just to make me look silly. This chap frequently astounds me with his complete lack of any technical understanding. The third told me I was just plain wrong because he is the FAA expert and I'm just a daft girl. I pretty well gave up after that, I do have a pile of shots of the gear well, internals gun bays etc all in the same colour and far away from that leaky smelly paint fading round thing up the front but it wasn't worth arguing about. At least Edgar believes me (Don't worry I haven't forgot your sample) As for these Spitfires obviously there wont be any flying soon, we have some aircraft in our collection that would be flyable but it would take more than three years and these haven't been buried under ground (under dust yes, but I'm a aeroplane fixer I don't do dust) I'd thing even if the aircraft are intact the sheet metals going to be fracked, but that's no biggy because that can still be used for patterns. Radios, instruments all that sort of stuff will get replaced as long as the data plate and windscreen is ok (jack up the windscreen, and run a new aeroplane under it) they will get something. Until then I'll sit back and watch all the "I knows" proclaim their infinite knowledge and expose gloom and doom from the comfort of their keyboards and enjoy the educated and knowledgable responses of those who have a clue. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The story goes that it was cheaper to dig a hole and bury 'em than it was to ship 'em back to the States and scrap 'em. Happend in the gulf war as well. Some equipment was so worn out an knackered it was buried rather than ship it back to the UK. There was a badly damaged A-10 that was stripped of all usefull parts, then the carcas buried as well. Julien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I would love to see the look on thier faces when they pull out a load of worn out Mohawks, Brewsters, Hurricanes and Vengeances. Now that would be interesting Is it just me that would rather see Hurricanes rather than Spits??? While I remain optimistic, I don't think they will find as many Spits as they claim in "perfect" condition. I'm not claiming by a any rate to be an expert but my gut feeling is that 70 years is a long time to go without any corrosion kicking in. I hope to be proved wrong, but I just don't see a whole squadron's worth of airworthy Spits being found. Having said that, personally, I think that even if they find enough parts to get two or three airworthy aircraft it'll still be a fantastic achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Happend in the gulf war as well. Some equipment was so worn out an knackered it was buried rather than ship it back to the UK. There was a badly damaged A-10 that was stripped of all usefull parts, then the carcas buried as well. Aha! So that's what happened to it. It was hit by a SAM which took out a complete engine pod, the whole tail assembly on the opposite side and the leading edge of one wing right down to the first spar. Yet the jet still stayed in the air and got the jockey to a friendly airbase. I saw that jet. It was a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Aha! So that's what happened to it. It was hit by a SAM which took out a complete engine pod, the whole tail assembly on the opposite side and the leading edge of one wing right down to the first spar. Yet the jet still stayed in the air and got the jockey to a friendly airbase. I saw that jet. It was a mess!Yes, shame as loads of museums would have taken it, just would have cost to much to repair / return to the US. Wonder if anyone still has the GPS co-ordinates? They said the A-10 could not survive over the modern battlefield but that SAM hit showed the Fairchild designers were right in how the built the aircraft to survive such a hit. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The story goes that it was cheaper to dig a hole and bury 'em than it was to ship 'em back to the States and scrap 'em.Highly suspicious if you asks me. The UK scrapped a huge amount of military equipment itself after the war, so the capability was there. If the Yanks had been that bothered they'd have sold the things to a local dealer. After all, securing scrap value was the important thing, not taking equipment out of circulation, since there would have been nothing very sensitive to worry about.On the crates in Burma ... I don't know the soil chemistry out there, but comparisons with aircraft preserved in sand are off the mark. Burying something in sand, even in a European climate, is surprisingly dry, since the stuff drains readily. Wet stowage in actual soil is a very different matter. Recent news reports say that the crate that's been located is full of water. Hopefully it's the contents that were waterproofed, not the container, but it's not a hopeful sign. Equally, though, thoughts of rust are way off too. Aircraft alloys don't rust. The engines probably have, though - and the question is then whether it's surface oxidation or something deeper, which depends on the soil conditions. Rusting takes place only where there's water and oxygen, so if it's saturated enough, there might be only mild corrosion. Although I can't help feeling, if it were that saturated, it would have been tricky to build a runway nearby. Aluminium doesn't corrode in water - if it did, saucepans would be a bit of a problem - and that on its own should mean minimal oxidation. But aluminium is very sensitive to other chemicals that may be dissolved in the water. Without knowing what the soil conditions are like, that's as far as I feel comfortable taking it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads203 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Latest news from the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20957162 Filled with muddy water 3 year restoration looks unlikely Edited January 15, 2013 by Dads203 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well there's an entire fleet of RAF Harriers buried in a big box of shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well Gents, There is one thing we can be certain of when these crates are unearthed for whatever they contain will immediately be condemned by the ex-spurts to be the wrong colour, dimensionally inaccurate and the wrong type. Not to mention the weathering will be all wrong... F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0M4ever Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Highly suspicious if you asks me. The UK scrapped a huge amount of military equipment itself after the war, so the capability was there. If the Yanks had been that bothered they'd have sold the things to a local dealer. After all, securing scrap value was the important thing, not taking equipment out of circulation, since there would have been nothing very sensitive to worry about. On the crates in Burma ... I don't know the soil chemistry out there, but comparisons with aircraft preserved in sand are off the mark. Burying something in sand, even in a European climate, is surprisingly dry, since the stuff drains readily. Wet stowage in actual soil is a very different matter. Recent news reports say that the crate that's been located is full of water. Hopefully it's the contents that were waterproofed, not the container, but it's not a hopeful sign. Equally, though, thoughts of rust are way off too. Aircraft alloys don't rust. The engines probably have, though - and the question is then whether it's surface oxidation or something deeper, which depends on the soil conditions. Rusting takes place only where there's water and oxygen, so if it's saturated enough, there might be only mild corrosion. Although I can't help feeling, if it were that saturated, it would have been tricky to build a runway nearby. Aluminium doesn't corrode in water - if it did, saucepans would be a bit of a problem - and that on its own should mean minimal oxidation. But aluminium is very sensitive to other chemicals that may be dissolved in the water. Without knowing what the soil conditions are like, that's as far as I feel comfortable taking it. Duralumin is very resistant to corrosion in water and acidic waters (the soils in that area of Burma are acidic), but it corrodes badly in alkaline waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Rumours persisted for years of a huge cavern under RAF Burtonwood brim full of ex US surplus. Most of the site has been comprehensively redeveloped and nothing found. Sorry guys but no buried B-36! Trevor My grandad used to look after the fishing ponds round there back in the 80's when I was a kid, he pulled out a pilots seat one day cleaning it, but don't know where it went afterwards. Not quite a full aircraft, but interesting noe the less ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 We must remember that we have our own "correspondant"out there,forumite Mark12. He(without revealing his name-some know who he is)is one of the world's most foremost Spitfire/Seafire historians,has his own Spitfire and "discovered" a rare example of the breed 40 years ago. He is "over there" as we speak and is keeping the peeps up to speed with developements over at Flypast forums. If there are any significant developements coming to light,I'm sure that one of us (there are a few)on here that get on Flypast forums will relay any exciting information to the BM Massiv. As Mark12 said to me before he went "I think they'll find something Spitfire,I don't know what though,so it's probably best to keep an open mind rather than get involved in all the speculation" And believe me folks,speculation is running wild over there at Flypast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossian Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Report says there aren't any at the dig site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699 ... but possibly may be somewhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHREAK Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I'm not at all surprised at this news. A customer of mine runs a company that restores aircraft (he's been involved with 3 Spitfires to date so he has a qualified opinion) who told me last year that they won't find any.... it's possible that this is one very elaborate hoax. Don't hold your breath or build your hopes up people. Report says there aren't any at the dig site:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 They did find Lord Lucan, Shergar, The Ark of the Covenant, The Holy Grail and a load of old Aurora moulds, but who cares about that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 They did find Lord Lucan, Shergar, The Ark of the Covenant, The Holy Grail and a load of old Aurora moulds, but who cares about that? All of which were discovered in an Irish meat processing factory... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenko Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 OK.... So humour me........................... what did they find in the crate that was full of water and was being pumped out ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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