When the Merlins finally take over

[SkippyBing]

I was always led to believe that the whole point of military SAR ops was to recover downed pilots. The SAR service was only provided to civilians as a courtesy and as a training opportunity.

When the SAR force evolved that was certainly the case, and they spent a lot of timing winching military pilots out of the ogg splosh the aircraft of the time being less reliable than British Rail. These days however almost all the rescue efforts are for civilians, there being less military aircraft and they don't tend to crash as much.

I wouldn't say SAR is provided to civilians as a courtesy, each SAR base declares its aircraft availability* to the Rescue Coordination Centre and they allocate assets as required, including Coast Guard helicopters. It's not as if the SAR flight at Chivenor can get a shout and then decide as it's a yachtsman they won't bother and the CG cab at Portland can do it instead.

*They're essentially contracted to provide X helicopters, e.g. one at immediate notice and a spare, and questions get asked if they can't meet that requirement.

[Jessica]

Not sure how true it is, but I did hear that the Merlin was unsuitable for SAR as the downwash from the blades was too focused/great? Surely that would be the same for any modern helicopter........sure someone will correct me.

It doesn't seem to bother the RCAF very much.

[Lynx7]

Think you might be thinking of the Wildcat when you say the Army and Navy are getting them. The Merlin is going over to the Navy, the Army aren't allowed to play with big helicopters!

Yep, we just have to settle with Apaches. Oooo, wish we had buses to play with..............

[PLC1966]

Certainly remember while being on 'A' Flt 22 Sqn at Chivenor about 15 years ago that the Flight Commander said that it was already being pushed around that unless the RAF got into CSAR in big way we would lose the SAR role full stop.

Edited November 30, 2012 by PLC1966

[Ade]

Give it twenty years and there won't even be a need for CSAR.....

[Grant]

Yes I forgot its only the army and navy that will have merlins not the raf

Oh dear - don't let the two Squadrons at RAF Benson here you say that!! The army do not operate Merlins, but the RAF definitely do.

As for UK SAR - probably AW189s, hopefully built in the UK.

cheers

Grant

[CockneyCol]

Didn't think it made sense, as all Helo's have downwash, do like the idea of an Osprey in SAR but that would be extreme....

[paul_c]

It doesn't seem to bother the RCAF very much.

Whilst on my Merlin tech course at Yeovil, I remember the instructor telling us the reason the Merlin doesn't do UK SAR as a primary role is due to it's physical size and down wash, especially in mountain rescue where the more compact SK is much more suited. The Canadians tend to use the Cormorant for off-shore SAR work where the size of the aircraft isn't as prohibitive.

As for CSAR, I believe that all of our medium/large helos from Puma up are capable of this, especially in theatre where the Merlin and Chinook are available for such work.

Modelling wise, you're better off Whiff-ing a Junglie or bagger Merlin, now they really will be a reality!

Edited December 2, 2012 by paul_c

[j22mdr]

Oh dear - don't let the two Squadrons at RAF Benson here you say that!! The army do not operate Merlins, but the RAF definitely do.

As for UK SAR - probably AW189s, hopefully built in the UK.

cheers

Grant

I meant RAF blonde moment

[phildagreek]

Won't the Merlin have to do SAR when it operates from the new carriers? Or is the Navy not planning on letting any of the very expensive new jets crash? And if the new jets crash over land [i.e. shot down] won't the Merlins have to do SAR over land as well? So why not use them now, to train the crews in SAR using the Merlin when the Sea King goes very soon.

Or is the plan to allow the very expensive aircrew to just be thrown away and forgotten about?

LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN THIS BLOODY COUNTRY AT THE MOMENT!!!!!

Sorry. Going. To. Lie. Down. Now.

Edited December 6, 2012 by phildagreek

[SkippyBing]

Won't the Merlin have to do SAR when it operates from the new carriers? Or is the Navy not planning on letting any of the very expensive new jets crash? And if the new jets crash over land [i.e. shot down] won't the Merlins have to do SAR over land as well? So why not use them now, to train the crews in SAR using the Merlin when the Sea King goes very soon.

All RN helicopter crews are trained in SAR as a secondary role, hence the odd lone yachtsman being rescued by a Lynx from a passing frigate. There's no need to set up a squadron of Merlins to train them in something they already do! It is after all just a bit of hovering together with a bit of winch work.

As to the overland SAR, if it's a friendly environment then it's a trivial task for a grey Merlin or Lynx as they may not even need to use the winch. If it's a hostile environment then it really depends on the situation but it's hard to see how having a Merlin SAR squadron in the UK would help as you'd really be looking for the skills used by the support helicopter force as the tricky bit won't be getting the pilot off the ground, it'll be getting to where he is without suffering the same fate.

[Adam Maas]

Whilst on my Merlin tech course at Yeovil, I remember the instructor telling us the reason the Merlin doesn't do UK SAR as a primary role is due to it's physical size and down wash, especially in mountain rescue where the more compact SK is much more suited. The Canadians tend to use the Cormorant for off-shore SAR work where the size of the aircraft isn't as prohibitive.

The RCAF uses the Cormorant for mountain SAR in far more constrained areas than exist in the UK, being they operate in the Rocky Mountains in BC. The RCAF only has two helicopters tasked primarily for SAR these days the Cormorant and the Griffon (Bell 412 derivative) and the only Griffon SAR unit is at Trenton, Ontario. The Comox-based Cormorants do SAR in mountainous BC, while the Sea King ASW helicopters also do some offshore SAR if a RCN vessel is in the area.