Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

[bootneck]

Hello Manfred,

 

those combos look to be excellent!  I also have an Anycubic printer and have been learning to draw with CAD for my builds.  Can I ask if you still have the dimensions available?  I would also like to build the components but do not have the dimensions for them.  I would like to rework my old scratchbuilt Crawler with my new experience of CAD and 3D printing

 

These models show how I have been practicing with CAD and 3D printing, they are printed at 1:144 scale.

 

 

 

I would also like to build some U.S. trucks that were used by NASA.

 

cheers,
Mike

[Arild Moland]

Looks like you got what you need there, Manfred! Your friend's got the same printer I do, and I can easily recommend it should you decide to get one for yourself.

[roma847]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:20 AM, bootneck said:

Hello Manfred,

 

those combos look to be excellent!  I also have an Anycubic printer and have been learning to draw with CAD for my builds.  Can I ask if you still have the dimensions available?  I would also like to build the components but do not have the dimensions for them.  I would like to rework my old scratchbuilt Crawler with my new experience of CAD and 3D printing

 

These models show how I have been practicing with CAD and 3D printing, they are printed at 1:144 scale.

 

 

 

I would also like to build some U.S. trucks that were used by NASA.

 

cheers,
Mike

 

Hi Mike,

 

and congrats to your very impressive success and progress in CAD and 3D printing, which confirms the old truth, Practice makes perfect! 

 

For getting the needed dimensions you can go to Mischa Klement's Crawler Support and use his Crawler truck assembly procedure as 3D PDF file, with the help of it you can measure all required dimensions for scratch-building of the Crawler in your scale as I've described it in my thread. 

 

And if you have any questions about it, we can talk about it via PM. 

 

BTW, can I order some of your great trucks in 1/160? 

 

 

[roma847]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:27 PM, Arild Moland said:

Looks like you got what you need there, Manfred! Your friend's got the same printer I do, and I can easily recommend it should you decide to get one for yourself.

 

Thanks Arild for your nice support.  

 

As one can see, my friend Pascal (bubble) has a lot of experience in 3D printing with Resin printers, so he was able to help me quickly. 

For me, buying a 3D printer is no longer worthwhile, as I no longer need as many parts printed in 3D and prefer rather scratch-building the rest. 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

today in a follow-up I would like to take another look at the Priming of the Resin combos, because on closer inspection I noticed certain differences in quality.

 

In the unprimed state immediately after printing, the details of the combos were still clearly pronounced, as one can see here.

 

Source: arcforums.com (bubble)

 

Then my friend Pascal (bubble) allegedly gave them a thin layer of a gray primer with MoTip Primer (04054) from a spray can.

 

The following comparison makes it easy to see the different layer thickness of the primer. While the details come out relatively well with the left combo, with the right combo they are quite heavily covered by the primer, which doesn't look that great, but is still quite acceptable.

 

 

I had already observed similar results myself when priming/painting models from the spray can and have since been rather skeptical about this method of applying paint, as the amount of paint cannot be dosed evenly and finely enough and the risk of leveling details is relatively high.

On the other hand, these problems can be largely avoided when using good Airbrush equipment, in which the paint application can be dosed much more finely.

 

 

Nonetheless, I can use the Resin combos for my Crawler with a clear conscience, as I can choose in which places on the trucks I install the 'less good' combos, especially since they in the installed state can hardly be seen between the trucks anyway and then also only the upper sides of the combos with the Propel motors.

[roma847]

Dear friends,

 

in weeks of painful grief I want to try to slowly come to my senses and bring myself to continue working on my project ... 

 

For this purpose I took the last printed Gearbox-Pair (XSFDP) from Shapeways and examined it once again more closely, because in retrospect I noticed some things that are not entirely plausible to me and do not really want to please.

 

In order to minimize the wax residues remaining despite Shapeways' cleaning after printing, we had let print this pair in the best possible print orientation (standing upright), which we had been previously recognized, 

 

Source: ARC Forums (crackerjazz)

 

which has the following support wax arrangement.

 

Source: ARC Forums (crackerjazz)

 

Source: ARC Forums (crackerjazz)

 

At first glance, the Combos (XSFDP) look clean on the outside, only there are wax residues in the inner cavities of the gear case and on the underside of the motor, which, however, are not so important for the later priming/painting, because one can hardly see these areas in the installed state anyway. 

 

However, clearly visible longitudinal grooves on the surfaces are noticeable, which I cannot explain to myself due to the selected print orientation, which is why I asked Shapeways for a statement. These grooves are clearly felt and have after all a distance/width of approx. 0,4 mm.

 

 

These two SW Combos I have now tried to clean so that they can then be primed and compared with the Resin combos, which I'll use for the crawler.  

 

This time the cleaning was not done in the dental laboratory but by using my small Ultrasonic cleaning device, 

 

based on the conditions proposed by BANDELIN at that time by using TICKOPUR R 60.

 

Source: bandelin.com

 

Since my US bath has no heating, I filled the trough with 50°C hot water and added 20% TICKOPUR. 

But since the Combos swam up and didn't want to sink, 

 

 

I've held them down with tweezers and cleaned them approx. 2 h by turning over several times at intervals of 10 minutes. 

 

 

Then they were rinsed in water, dipped briefly in 2-Propanol and dried under the hair dryer. 

 

 

As one can see, the cleaning time of 2 h is not enough to completely remove the wax residues out of the inner cavities, but which is no longer important to me. 

 

 

 

Both on the underside of the engine, as can be seen here, 

 

 

as well as inside the case there are still considerable wax residues.

 

 

So I want to leave it at that for now and will now prime both combos in this state and also my scratched prototype in order to be able to compare them with the primed Resin combos.

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

in response to my complaint about the grooves, Shapeways has sent the following statement:

 

Hey Manfred,

Let's start off by saying sorry! We work hard to make sure you are 100% satisfied with your purchase. Unfortunately sometimes we mess up.
To make sure you are completely satisfied we just placed a new order for you at no charge.

Your new order will ship by: 2021-10-25 

 

Well then, let's wait and see the new MotorGearboxCombo-Pair in Smoothest Fine Detail Plastic (XSFDP), I'm curious.

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

Shapeways has delivered the day before yesterday, so here are a few images of the new MotorGearboxCombo-Pair (XSFDP).  

 

Here at first the new pair, on which one can already see with a little good will that the grooves are still there, but seem to be a little less distinct.

 

 

And here once again the complained previous pair with the clearly distinct grooves.

 

 

In order to be able to recognize differences, one has to look carefully and also pay attention to a favorable incidence of light.  

 

On this zoomed direct comparison one can see the differences better and it is easy to see that the grooves are weaker distinct but still present.  

 

 

Therefore I came to the realization that Shapeways besides the well-known annoying wax problem still has problems with the print quality, which is why I'm able to live without further efforts and will use the Resin combos with a clear conscience.

[roma847]

Hello dear friends,

 

today is a memorable day for me, because on 15th November 2011 I did present the first post about my STS-6 Long-term Project in the German Raumcon forum. 

 

In November of 2012 I started reporting on my project here in the BM Forum.

 

On the day of my 10th Anniversary I feel reminded of the time and the accompanying circumstances with a smile and a little melancholy, and in retrospect I have to say that at the time I was not sure what I was getting into with it and how long I would probably spend with it.

 

Therefore, at this point, I would like to take a brief look back at the genesis of the project, what you don't know so far, and hopefully will be interesting to you too. 

Initially I followed the construction report from a friend (inselaner) in the then still existing Scaleworld Forum with interest, who has reported there about his Launch pad Project with Atlantis STS-135 that more and more pulled me under its spell, fascinated and ultimately really infected me to start a similar project.  

 

A hurdle was initially the legendary old Revell Space Shuttle Launch Tower Kit 4911 used by him, which had been out of stock for a long time and could only occasionally be purchased by auction at ebay for horrific prices.

 

Source: ANDROMEDA24.DE

 

This kit of course I would have liked to have had it as a start-up aid, but only from where take it, if not steal ...

 

But then by a happy coincidence and thanks to my good contacts to the shop owners of ANDROMEDA24.DE I came across one of these coveted Revell kits (4911), which I got thanks to their good contacts overseas (180 €), which laid the foundation for my project in August 2011.

 

At the same time, I already had bought David Maier's Paper Kits for the Mobile Launcher Platform (MLP) and the Crawler Transporter (CT) and got started building the MLP. 

 

After starting my project at Scaleworld, I had planned to report on it in the Raumcon forum too. However, at the beginning I had serious reservations because their Model building Thread at that time was not structured according to topics and therefore hardly manageable, a hodgepodge of different contributions and opinions on it in a disordered monster XXXL thread which made reading along and correspondence not exactly easy.

 

And already because of that, some members were held back from presenting their own projects , especially since it was no different for me at the time. That's why my first project contributions were initially just an attempt to initiate the discussion without wanting to compete as a lateral entrant.

 

My suggestions for revising the forum structure, initially discussed with the Space flight admin via PM, apparently also fell on fertile ground of the other admins and were then implemented in painstaking detailed work, whereupon one could present his project in special subject areas and let discuss it, which was a big step forward and quickly became very popular.  

 

To my surprise, a friend of mine created the following diagram of Views and Replies in the Raumcon forum, where the 900.000 barrier has now been broken. 

 

Source: forum.raumfahrer.net (Hugo)

 

I have to admit that with large-scale projects like this, it is not easy to remain committed and focused on the ball and not let tear down, because otherwise it becomes more and more difficult to come back and move on. 

 

I managed to do this quite well over the years, even though I had to cope with a few blows in the neck and emergency operations ... But then the feedback from the forum and encouraging words of you were always helpful in order to gain new strength and keep motivation high.

 

Also the close relationship between our two Launch Pad projects has always inspired and spurred me on, and the mutual exchange of ideas was a real stimulus for both sides.

 

Inspired by my STS-6 project, from 2015 to 2017 my friend Thomas (golgi863), who unfortunately passed away much too early, presented his Launch Complex project with Discovery (STS-41D), with whom I had a close and very intensive contact, from which we both benefited.

 

In the meantime I have worked on all important areas of the Launch Complex 39A up to the diorama, so that I would actually have to modify my project title accordingly. 

 

Also in the other forums in which I post, guys have often asked me where I would get the strength and stamina for this mammoth task. But in the meantime my daily work has become a real passion, especially since my extensive research has given me new insights and interesting insights into this ingenious space technology that I would never want to be without.

 

Even if my level has not been 100% lately due to family circumstances, I still try to overcome this hard time and be able to motivate myself again. 
I would like to take this opportunity to express my thanks for the continued interest in my work and the many helpful contributions and expressions of opinion.

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

slowly I have to get back on track and want to make a first step today, otherwise the thread will break too much, which I don't want to do to myself as well as to you.

 

I finally wanted to report back, for a change with a little detour to the Pad fleet of vehicles, which shouldn't be missing entirely on my Diorama.

 

I was inspired by a post by my friend Mike (bootneck), who was concerned with CAD & 3D printing some time ago and has printed some great vehicles like this in 1:144.  

 

Source: britmodeller.com (bootneck)

 

And imagine, he wants to print it for me in the 1:160, out of gratitude cause he has already learned so much from me, a noble gesture indeed with which he totally surprised me.

 

That gave me the idea to ask him if he could not also model and print the NASA Astrovan that most of you will know, what he'd like to try if I could deliver him corresponding reference material (photos/drawings/dimensions).

 

And that gave me the decisive kick to pick up myself and get started with researching. 

 

Source: wikimewdia.org

 

As always, at first the question did arise for me about the historical aspect, how this Astrovan looked like in the early Shuttle Era at Challenger's STS-6 ...  

 

More on that next time. 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

if one turns to the topic NASA-Astrovan (Astronaut Transfer Van) and googles for Astrovan, one will find photos like this one, 

 

Source: wikimedia.org

 

Source: wikimedia.org

 

which show one that there were apparently different models of the van, but that you have to put them in the correct chronological timeline in order not to compare apples with pears.

 

While the Astrovan still looks relatively simple in the first picture, the second van is much more modern, one just have to know when they were in use to be sure that these are photos from the Shuttle era, and not about images from the Apollo era ...

 

Because if one digs a little deeper into NASA history, one will also find pictures of Astrovans that had different NASA logos, which initially confused me a lot. It's just a small optical detail, but almost like a name, and it just has to fit in with it in terms of time, otherwise it's like a break in style.

 

On the one hand there is the well-known blue NASA Meatball and the less well-known NASA Worm. 

 

Source: NASA

 

The difficulty now is that NASA apparently did not adhere to any temporal stringency with regard to the logos used during the Apollo era as well as during the shuttle era but used both logos at times, which does not make the recherche easier, on the contrary.

 

Therefore I initially followed the van's tracks true to my title slogan Back to the Beginning of NASA's Space Shuttle Missions and after photos of the Astrovans of that time wanted, which clearly show the time relation to the STS-6. 

 

In this photo one can see the STS-6 crew with Story Musgrave in the lead getting into the van. This is clearly the older box-shaped white van model, a modified Clark-Cortez motorhome, but unfortunately the logos on the sides are not in the photo.  

 

Source: retrospaceimages.com (J. L. Pickering, STS-6)

 

After that, I went back even further, to the STS-1, with which the shuttle era began, and I found this insightful photo in the NASA media archive on which the van at the time had the Worm logo.  

 

Source: NASA

 

Step by step I got closer to the STS-6, whereby according to my logo philosophy I assumed that the van at that time probably also had this Worm logo, which had to be proven. 

 

Since my friend James MacLaren couldn't help me any further, I remembered my German friend Oliver Bombosch (Ares67), who in the NSF Forum has documented the early shuttle missions in detail, after what I asked him. 

 

And somehow I must have had the right feeling, because he sent me a Tagesschau Video round about the maiden flight of the Challenger (STS-6), what finally provided the clear evidence that the Astrovan at that time carried the NASA Worm logo. So I was actually at the goal of my search.   

 

Source: ARD Tagesschau

 

I also found a picture on which the Astrovan used in the STS-9 can be seen, which had no logo at all, presumably that was the time of the transition to the successor model of the Airstream Excella Astrovan used since 1983, 

 

Source: NASA

 

at which the Meatball logo was used again from now on. 

 

Source: live.staticflickr.com

 

But there are also photos of the old van model used during the Apollo era (e.g. Apollo 10) with the Meatball logo, which I unfortunately cannot show caused by copyright.  

 

So much for NASA's Logo confusion.

[uilleann]

Ah the old worm vs meatball saga!  There are some funny panels with the astronauts themselves weighing in on which is the "better" logo.  For my own part, I've always been partial to the meatball, but the worm is cool in its own right!

 

Great work and research on all these great details Manfred!  Really love following your build here. Completely epic!  I know our local planetarium would LOVE to build a permanent display for something like this out here, but no locals have this level of skill or patience!  Do you have display plans when you're finished at all?

 

Brian~

[roma847]

Thanks Brian for your nice comment. 

 

That is really an interesting story, I'm glad I now know that during Challenger's STS-6 mission still had the NASA worm on the Astrovan. 

 

It will be some time before I can finish my long-term project.  So I'm not yet thinking about any further plans. 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

for the fun of it I did some more research and found out that the NASA Worm stayed for some longer time on the Astrovan yet, not just until 1992, as officially announced here.

 

Up to mission STS-35 (1990) I was able to check it with the help of the ingenious documentations of my German NSF friend Oliver Bombosch (Ares67).

 

Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Ares67)

 

Furthermore I also randomly checked missions following STS-35 (1990), which were also documented by Ares67 in his awesome Thread Ares’ Space Shuttle Video Vault, what I can highly recommend to all shuttle freaks.

 

According to that the STS-55 (04/26/1993) was the last mission in which the NASA Worm shone on the Astrovan. 

 

Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Ares67)

 

And during the following mission STS-57 (06/21/1993) the NASA Meatball was on the Astrovan again for the first time, 

 

Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Ares67)

 

and from then until the last shuttle mission of Atlantis STS-135 (07/08/2011).

 

But I have one more delicacy for rounding off this controversy about the use of the NASA logos. 

Hard to believe, but there was not only the classical Meatball, but also discussions about a Wormball, 

 

Source: NASA

 

but NASA headquarters quickly took the wind out of its sails.

And since meanwhile I've taken pleasure in the Astrovan theme, and to make my fingers a little more flexible again, I want to start with a short warm-up for a Restart. 

 

My friend Elmer (EG) from the NSF Forum sent me a link on which one can download a Paper Kit (1:48) of the Astrovan, which I will simply build, initially in 1:48, but then also to match my diorama in 1:160, but with the correct NASA Worm logo, in order to fit for the STS-6.

 

Source: paper-replika.com (Julius Perdana)

 

Sorce: paper-replika.com (Julius Perdana)

 

Source: paper-replika.com (Julius Perdana)

 

As it looks like building the van is relatively straightforward. Since some parts of the paper construction do not seem stable enough to me, I will strengthen them a little, for example the wheels, for each of which I will glue two Balsa slices together. 

 

 

Let's see how it will feel like ...

[roma847]

Hello everybody,
and with that now to the model bulding of the Paper-Astrovan (1:48), let's go.  

 

First of all, this is a look at the kit templates, the larger one is the Original Paper kit in 1:48, and on top of it lies the version that has been reduced in size for my diorama (1:160) with the NASA Worm logo so that the van also matches the STS-6.

 

 

The construction of the wheels (9) I wanted to simplify a bit and make them more stable at the same time. 

 

 

For this I glued two Balsa discs (2 mm) to each other, 

 

 

whereupon the tread was then coated with the black stripe.

 

 

Then the large bodywork (1) was cut out and folded, 

 

 

and glued together. 

 

The simple parts (10) provided for fastening the wheels seemed too spartan to me for reasons of stability and stability. 

 

 

and the 'folding roof' also looks adventurous, which is why I've prepared Balsa reinforcements, especially since the Fans (8, 11) have to be glued onto the roof, whereby it would certainly be pressed in.

 

 

Due to the Balsa reinforcements, the roof should be sufficiently stable, at least on the adhesive surfaces of the fans. 

 

 

Gluing the roof together was a tricky business, especially since the glossy paper I chose was quite stubborn and couldn't be glued well. Before the roof was glued on, the wheel mounts had to be glued in, into which the wheels were then glued from the outside. 

 

 

To stabilize the side walls, I also glued balsa strips inside as a precaution. Then the fans were glued together and the rotating beacon was put on, 

 

 

and glued all the parts onto the roof. 

 

 

Now the only thing missing was the bumper, for which I used a Styrene strip (0,5 mm). And where I write that, I notice that the van also has small bumpers on the back outside next to the door, which are missing in the kit, which is why I will retrofit them. In the meantime, the driver can also look in the driving mirrors and drive to pick up the crew. 

 

And with that I want to say goodbye for the time being,

 

 

and wish all of you a merry and reflective Christmas, and above all, that we all stay healthy! Now just a little bit of snow is missing ... 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

just a little foretaste of what is now in store for me with the Astrovan in 1:160.

 

[Kallisti]

Just caught up after a while - 10 years, blimey Manfred, you have an amazing stamina and focus to keep working on this project for so long, hence why we are up to page 90 in this thread

Keep it up, this continues to be a marvellous look into the intricate details of the shuttle and everything around it.

 

Happy New Year!

[roma847]

Hi Kallisti,

 

welcome back and thanks for your nice compliment and the good wishes!  The same for you!

 

It's a long and winding road to the destination, that I can see at the end of the tunnel ... 

So the journey still goes on, stay tuned. 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

today my Christmas present finally arrived from ANDROMEDA24.DE.

 

 

A great illustrated book with many interesting and rare photos on 238 pages, an absolute Must have  for shuttle lovers like me!

Here is a little foretaste! 

 

 

And here's another insider tip that even a search on the Andromeda website won't bring to light ...

 

The legendary Revell Launch Tower Kit (4911), which is out of stock already even after its new edition, with all its unpleasant scale flaws,  

 

 

of which the shop owners were still able to chase down a few copies (129 €).

 

So hurry up, first come first served!

[roma847]

Hello my friends,

 

but before the clock of the old year finally is running down, I would like to come back to my STS-6-Astrovan (1:160) and take one last look at it for this year.

 

And I have to admit that just alone cutting out the body and especially the wheel cases was a tricky business, which surprised me quite a bit,

 

 

as well like the folding and gluing of this tiny van compared to the larger model (1:48). 

 

 

I'm already scared of the roof ...  

 

 

And now it is time to thank you again for your interest in my work and to wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Cheers!

[uilleann]

Here's to a healthy, and happy New Year Manfred!  Thanks so much for sharing your incredible work with all of us here!

 

Cheers!

 

Brian~

[roma847]

Thanks Brian, 

 

and stay tuned, the show can go on! 

[Adm Lord De Univers]

Happy New Year Manfred,

 

I'm also quite relieved (I couldn't figure out why your astrovan was so gigantic, either that or I'd already forgotten how large one euro cents are!). Can't wait to see this continue in the new year...

 

David

[roma847]

Thanks David! 

 

Well, 1:48 is a bit larger than 1:160, so the cent coin must always be with you.  

Simply stay tuned and healthy, and enjoy!   

[roma847]