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Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6


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4 hours ago, Mass said:

Manfred that is a very, very thorough approach you've taken.

 

I wonder if, following your dentists experiment, firing pure water through an airbrush with a fine tip might help?

 

It seems that you need some mechanical force after any treatment in a cleaning bath, and an airbrush and water is in most modeller's arsenals. You would also have good control over pressure and coverage and could avoid having to use any metal object that might mar the expensive castings.

 

Ciao

 

Thanks Mass,

 

this seems to be the normal way, but I would like to use the equipment of my Dental laboratory, whose effect is more intense. up040577.gif&key=327a20a361d18ad6d35cabf

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Hello everyone,

 

as you can see on my outfit, I wanted to try sharper things today to finally cope with those annoying wax residuals. analintruder.gif

 

PJ0heP.jpg

 

In the already mentioned PDF of Volkmar Meier for the cleaning of FUD/FXD-Prints he had i.a. even presented Stove cleaning spray as an effective remedy and seemingly successfully applied, which has made me curious. smiley215.gif

 

UQcOrn.jpg

 

In order to test this initially rather unusual method on an IT, I contacted him by e-mail in France,  smiley203.gif to find out more about his procedure, to which he has surprisingly answered in German, which I almost suspected according to his name. cool.gif

 

The spray in his image is the DecapFour from Henkel available in France in the blue box containing caustic soda lye, shocked.gif and therefore is to be used with caution, which is why one absolutely should wear rubber gloves!

 

He sprayed the models outdoors on a baking sheet from all sides with the oven spray and waited until the foam has dissipated, about 30-60 minutes. Then followed by one, two lukewarm water baths, where he scrubbed the models with an old toothbrush.  up045518.gif

 

In Germany there is a comparable spray under the name Sidol, which I got in the supermarket,

 

4izbC8.jpg

 

and had to test it immediately in the garden, let's go! andiearbeit.gif

 

fMbxfd.jpg

 

First of all, the IT in the box was vigorously foamed from all sides until it was no longer visible.  cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

PdDseb.jpg

 

Vydc3X.jpg

 

And then I waited eagerly for the foam to finally dissolve ... up035091.gif

 

UZLUEr.jpg

 

But when nothing had happened after an hour,  

 

Kwk7gv.jpg

 

I got the tank out of the box and scrubbed it in the water bath around with the toothbrush for a few minutes.

 

McaxNE.jpg

 

And because it was just so beautiful, I almost continued with myself, but I was just now able to hold myself back!!! 00000016.gif  

 

rfNIZa.jpg

 

Fun aside, because after the tank was dried, the disillusionment came promptly. rolleyes.gif 

 

As you can clearly see, there are in addition to clean areas still with wax residuals, smiley_worship.gif both between the stringers, as well as in the fine grooves of the Thrust Panel, and especially under raised details such as the Access Door and the two Fairings.  hmmm.gif

 

f8ChZ4.jpg

 

aVR1HI.jpg

 

Furthermore, it is noticeable that the stringer grooves of the rear half of the tank are clean, whereas those in the front half still contain wax, which I can not explain.  i5684_no2.gif

 

AlCBRr.jpg

 

That's why I grabbed the steel ruler to remove the residuals, which is possible, but very tedious and therefore not the yellow of the egg. huh.gif

 

0D6JHp.jpg

 

But maybe someone of you has an explanation for that.  up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

now it's starting to get scary and spoil all the fun with tiny details, up043952.gif but maybe that's the curse of the many grooves. noidea2.gif

 

On the one hand the cleaning of this Intertank with its many fine grooves obviously is an extremely hard nut and very difficult to handle. s-boese-wand02.gif

 

But on the other hand it also seems to be a problem of the post-treatment and cleaning of prints by Shapeways itself, because the third IT seems have been treated more thoroughly and consequently to be cleaner than this first IT. Other guys have also noticed and complained about this different quality of the post-treatment, as I've read in several forums. default_rolleyes.gif

 

Maybe Shapeways would have to let him in the oven for longer to melt out the residual wax completely. smiley215.gif

In this context, I remember a passage in Shapeways Magazine (1. Model Prep) with the following interesting tip, which could be a broad hint for all users. zaunpf.gif

 

**TIP** If you notice an excess amount of residual support material or details are distorted, this may call for a reprint. Please send an image and order number to [email protected]

 

And then the following thing does not go out of my mind. hmmm.gif

This is the BANDELIN video about the ultrasonic cleaning of a chain I posted on March 14, where one had cleaned for about 4 h at 70°C until all the wax was dissolved. eek.gif

 

up062005.jpg

 

This longer time we will take into consideration when cleaning the final IT in the Dental Lab next week. up040577.gif

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Oh Manfred, your such a handsome guy, nice photos!  Good luck with the cleaning process.

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Hello friends,

 

meanwhile, I also got the WSF-Intertank, which gives me a comparison between these two materials. cool.gif

 

vMj8wl.jpg

 

And I have to confess that I'm quite surprised, especially since the details come out well despite the slightly grainy surface.

speak_cool.gif

 

jH9eaP.jpg

 

9o0N1H.jpg

 

7WhkN4.jpg

 

txUOGC.jpg

 

And since there is no shrinkage in the WSF material during printing, the IT fits exactly between the two ET parts.  up045518.gif

 

Ey9Rql.jpg

 

jmUXCz.jpg

 

eVQNDt.jpg

 

Of course, the roughness looks blatant on these macro shots, rolleyes.gif

 

38iEz4.jpg

 

oZFVPJ.jpg

 

but already with some distance from the normal viewing perspective, it looks much friendlier.  up045518.gif

 

AAsoTH.jpg

 

And if the IT will be painted, he should also fit optically well to the other two ET parts, which additionally shall get their insulating foam look. top.gif

 

lB6QCe.jpg

 

Since WSF printing uses powdered plastic and no support wax, the parts have only a slight powdery residue that can be removed by slight rinsing off in dish water, as my ARC friend Bill (niart17) has reported for his 1/72 WSF-Intertank. up045518.gif

 

Because WSF is porous and sucks up a lot of moisture, one should let the parts dry for several days, before one applies a primer.  

 

But all in all it means, that cleaning of WSF parts should be less expensive than of FUD parts.  up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

before I go into detail about with the final FUD-IT, here are both IT variants one more time in comparison.  cool.gif

 

up063112.jpg

 

up062995.jpg

 

In preparation for the cleaning campaign in the Dental Lab I have again scrutinized the FUD-IT under my new magnifying glass spiegel-smilies-0002.gif and taken macro shots all-around, in order to be able to better control the critical points on site, whether or how far the wax residuals have been removed.  up045518.gif 

 

up063113.jpg

 

As I have already described, the last of the three FUD-ITs has the fewest wax residuals, once more confirming the different quality of the Shapeways aftertreatment. smiley_worship.gif

 

In the circled areas one can see clusters of wax residuals in the grooves, rolleyes.gif

 

up063114.jpg

 

which are visible more or less well due to the low FUD contrast.  up047089.gif

 

up063115.jpg

 

up063116.jpg

 

up063117.jpg

 

up063118.jpg

 

up063119.jpg

 

up063120.jpg

 

up063121.jpg

 

And after a full circumnavigation of the IT, I'm back at the starting point at the two Fairings

 

up063122.jpg

 

wherewith I want to let it go at that for today. up040577.gif

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Thanks for the reviews of the different materials. I think the trouble you had with FUD is definitely suggesting that is too much effort - and I do not have such an accommodating dentist!

Consequently, I have ordered a WSF version from Shapeways and saved some money into the bargain. I imagine a light brushing with my fibreglass brush will smooth the surface without taking off the details, and hopefully priming and painting will help. Now I suppose I just need an Airfix version of the shuttle stack to use it with... 😲🤣

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Hi Mark,

 

the first steps are always the hardest. rolleyes.gif

 

But one should not give up too fast and bite oneself through this tricky matter. s-boese-wand02.gif

 

That you also have ordered a WSF IT, I think great, and Michael Key will be happy too. speak_cool.gif   

 

Here is an interesting Painting 3D printed SLS model tutorial for WSF printed parts, which is certainly helpful. up040577.gif       

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Received my WSF intertank today. Looks like it will be just fine with very little prep. I’m very happy with it. 😁

Many thanks to you, Manfred, and to Michael for your joint hard work in making this very neatly detailed part available on Shapeways. 😊

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Hi Mark,

 

I am pleased with you and Michael Key will surely be delighted too. top2.gif

 

With all its cool details this IT will become an amazing eye catcher for every External Tank, whose effort was worth. up040577.gif&key=327a20a361d18ad6d35cabf

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Hello everybody,

 

in preparation for the decisive cleaning of the last FUD-IT in the Dental lab, I have dealt more intensively with the matter and looked around further. cool.gif

 

In the already shown BANDELIN Video of the ultrasonic cleaning of the chain the intensive cleaner TICKOPUR R 60 (10%) was used for approx. 2 - 3 h at
70 °C.

 

In a corresponding product information of the DR. H. STAMM GmbH I found this information, which made me unsure referring to the cleaning time, as they are much shorter.

 

Application with ultrasound 
Dosage: 2 - 20 %
Cleaning time: 1 - 10 min. 
Temperature: 20 - 80 °C

 

Application without ultrasound
Dosage: 10 - 30 % 
Cleaning time: up to 12 h
Temperature: 20 - 80 °C

 

Therefore I have contacted BANDELIN and received the following answer from the DR. H. STAMM GmbH (Plant Manager Stephan Herzberg), what amazed me at first. rolleyes.gif

 

The cleaning time in removing the support material is a special application, which deviates considerably from the usual vleaning times, which are recommended in the product information, but have been determined by tests and have already been used successfully by several customers.

A soapy water will probably not bring the desired cleaning result even with prolonged time, which you can of course test.

We recommend the use of TICKOPUR R 60 with the application parameters given in the video.

 

Thereupon I contacted the manager and first learned that the DR. H. STAMM GmbH historically belongs to the corporate group BANDELIN and cleaning and disinfection preparations for SONOREX Ultrasound Technology developed and produced.

 

Then he willingly gave me information to my questions about the application parameters given in the video , as well as special advice for cleaning my Intertank. speak_cool.gif 

 

Since the strongest ultrasound effect in the trough occurs from below, the IT should not be upright during the cleaning because of the grooves, but lying longitudinally in a glass insert, and by stepwise rotation about the longitudinal axis after about 15 minutes in TICKOPUR Bath at 70 °C cleaned and checked in between. up045518.gif 

 

For the best cavitation performance, the glass insert should have a distance from the bottom of the tank of approx. 2 - 3 cm and, because of the connection itself, also be surrounded by water + cleaning agent, otherwise losses would occur. 

 

Considering the filigree grooves of the Intertanks he thinks that longer cleaning times of about 2 - 3 h might be necessary, which is why checks after shorter intervals would make sense. huh.gif

 

Now all I have to do is wait for the ordered TICKOPUR, and then I will go back to the Dental lab for the Final Countdownup040577.gif  

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Thanks Rich for your good wishes bow.gif

 

I hope the TICKOPUR will support the job effectively. top.gif

10000112_0.jpg

 

And therefore I think I'll manage it with the final IT at my next trip to the Detal Lab if I follow the instructions of the BANDELIN expert.  up045518.gif

 

Otherwise I take the WSF IT, which fortunately has no support wax. up040577.gif

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Hello friends,

 

due to some short vacation in the Dental lab the Ultrasonic cleaning of the FUD-Intertank will take some time, I've thought again about the further building process and came to the following decision. cool.gif

 

Since I've been working intensively on the External Tank/Intertank lately, it actually makes sense to keep going and completing it as the basic building block for the Shuttle Stack, i.e. including the related details such as LO2 Feedline, GO2/GH2Press. Lines, the Ice/Frost Ramps and PAL Ramps, as well as the Orbiter Attachments

 

This includes then also the imitation of the Instafoam insulation structure of the front and rear ET parts by the special "Flour technique" as well as the final priming and paintwork.  top.gif

 

Then it will continue with the SRBs and the Orbiter, which finally complete the Shuttle stack.  up045518.gif 

 

Only then will I proceed to the construction of the Launch Tower (FSS/RSS), whereby the complete stack MLP will be available for control, in particular when it will depend on every millimeter for increasing the tower to the needed height. hmmm.gif

 

Furthermore I decided for not to let be modeled the Ice/Frost Ramps as a 3D set, but rather to use the filigree ramps from the already presented Newware Kit (NW131), speak_cool.gif which one can not do better actually, which is why I have now bought myself this kit, which I would like to introduce here again briefly in some images.

 

fMyYyA.jpg

 

These are predominantly resin parts

 

5FXx2R.jpg

 

as well as a PE sheet with finest details for the ET and the SRBs as well as for the orbiter, incl. some Decals.

 

BGW98g.jpg

 

Although the kit is designed specifically for the Revell Shuttle Stack (1/144), some parts can also be used for the Airfix Stack, so such as here among others the fine structured SRB Forward Frustum & Nose Cone, if I measured correctly. top.gif 

 

Below are some of the tiny Ice/Frost Ramps and one of the filigree SSME engine nozzles.

 

i38QKE.jpg

 

Here is the PE sheet once again. 

 

YpDVu5.jpg

 

For the engine nozzles, I actually wanted to use the kit from RealSpace Models, which I had set aside already long time ago and now could compare to the Newware nozzles.  cool.gif

 

RBw0KL.jpg

 

It immediately stands out that the RealSpace SSMEs look more squat and seem to be slightly larger than those of Newware.  rolleyes.gif

 

llcGBd.jpg

 

And once we're comparing already, I also added the nozzles of Revell (left) and those of Airfix (grey), from which you can now choose what you like better ... up035091.gif  

 

1i8cNh.jpg

 

For my taste, then the SSMEs of Revell and Airfix quickly discards, whereby this begs immediately the question of the dimensions in comparison to the original. smiley215.gif

 

I have only found these SSME dimensions by Pratt & Whitney:

 

Lenght: 168 in. = 4,30 m = 29,9 mm (1/144)
Diameter: 96 in. = Ø 2,40 m = Ø 16,7 mm (1/144)

 

Unfortunately this is only the total length of the SSME, but not the length of the engine nozzle.  rolleyes.gif

 

Maybe someone can help. up040577.gif

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Hi Manfred,

 

  Obviously the Newware nozzle looks the best, but you decide which works the best for you.  I'm sorry I don't know the nozzle length.  Perhaps one of your friends over at nasaspaceflight might have that info.

 

  I like that you are starting to bash other kits for this mighty project, (Lots of left over parts to mess with later on).  Doing what ever you need to, to make this build outstanding is why it's looking so good.

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I agree with Rich that the New Ware looks the best shape accordingto this SSME picture. How does the diameter measure up? The diameter and distance apart from each other will be a huge factor in looking right! I’m not sure about size, but the Real Space looks the odd one out and I’m hoping that the New Ware is accurate as I also have that kit!

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Thanks Rich and Mark, :worthy:

 

I fully agree with you, regarding the Newware Nozzlestop.gif

 

In D. R. Jenkins' great book Space Shuttle - The First 100 Missions which is really an awesome source, speak_cool.gif I have found this SSME drawing with the two dimensions already known (L1/D1) from which I have determined the other dimensions, which should be accurate.

 

By using this drawing I come to a Nozzle length of 17,3 mm (1/144)up040577.gif

 

PKdful.jpg

 

Here is a comparison of the dimensions of all four Nozzles with the original, based on this drawing. top.gif

 

eh9s3r.jpg

This confirms the visual impression that the RealSpace Nozzles look a bit too plump and are larger than those of Newware, which is also illustrated by this image. 

 

x2QHZC.jpg

 

And that's why I can live well with the Newware Nozzles and I'll most likely use them. up040577.gif

 

Unless I let myself get carried away by the 3D version (1/144) of my ARC friend Bill (niParts), but then I would be right back to the damn support wax, and this stuff then remove from those fragile pipes ... omgsign.gif 

 

82yIi9.jpg
Quelle: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

BTW, as Shapeways meanwhile has updated the names of their materials, one will have to get used to new terms. rolleyes.gif

 

- Smooth Fine Detail Plastic is the new name for FUD,  

-  Smoothest Fine Detail Plastic for FXD, and

- White Natural Versatile Plastic for WSF

 

Because there are apparently still no shortcuts, I continue to use the usual old shortcuts.  up040577.gif

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The Revell SSME's are pretty unusable in my opinion, the detail basicly being stepped plastic. If I do get round to doing a project of an example of every orbiter and a full stack Endeavour I couldn't afford so many Neware SSMEs, so in the process of collecting as many Airfix ones as I can. They might not be perfect but far superior to the Revell ones.

 

Keith

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