Harry Lime Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Bill, Thoroughly enjoying this so far. Certainly seems like you've got the measure of the beast for now! Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hi mates, A bit more progress tonight - first up we had to do something with the trailing edge of the fuselage and inboard wings. Recall that I used four clothes pegs to clamp 'em down while the liquid glue was oozing out all over. This left a good bond, but the trailing edges did not come to a nice thin edge. Heck, they didn't even come to a blunt edge, they came to a square edge! Aye carumba... So back to the sanding sticks. I love sanding sticks. I really do. I dream about them. They are my life. And...they helped me get a much cleaner edge. Witness the trailing edges on the left and the kit edges on the right: I added the fairings over the back of the rocket pods, I think that will be OK. Now, while some putty was drying somewhere, I started thinking about the booms. The ever so long, MPM/Xtrakit Sea Vixen booms from hell. Compared to my non-certified drawings, the booms appear to be about 4mm or so too long. I have to tackle this, as it will be instantly noticeable by the Sea Vixen Illuminati if I don't. Now, one thing that I am finding very nice about the FAA Models Sea Vixen update set, is the pair of plugs they provide to help you attach and align the booms to the fuselage, which MPM/Xtrakit have engineered as a butt joint. (I am resisting making any jokes about using a plug on a butt joint.) They are cast in resin and look absolutely awful, like the master pattern was made from rolled up Tamiya tape. But, hey, they're labelled with some cuneiform characters that somewhat resemble a "P" (I'm thinking port) and "S" (sherry?) so you don't get them mixed up. Here they are installed in the fuselage (by the way, I've learned that I put them in backwards - d'oh!): All kidding aside, I think these are worth the price of the update set alone. Let's slide the boom on, and tape the pinion tank on (is it OK to call it a conformal tank?) and see where we are. It's easy to see that the notch that is cut into the side of the fuel tank/boom extension is not aligned to the NACA duct (which, by the way, CyberHobby did NOT copy. Nope, they put their ducts in backwards, always useful when backing the Vixen into a parking space). Interestingly enough, if I shorten the boom, the notch may actually line up. But that makes me wonder about the rear end of the fuel tank/boom extension - if I shorten the booms, will I also need to shorten the boom extensions? If we look closely, we can see that the rear end of the boom extension ends several millimetres before the top of the boom starts curving up into the tail fin. Moving the boom forward (the effect of shortening it) won't cause any problem back by the tail fin. But would it be accurate? Here is a shot of the Red Bull bird (man, I'm glad they painted over this scheme), and notice where the boom extension ends. Right about where the curve for the tail fin starts! Enter dumb luck, my new best friend (I think I said that already). MPM/Xtrakit may have made the booms too long, but they did not repeat their error with the boom extensions. Shortening the booms will make the extension's position more accurate. And, the booms get thinner as you go farther back. The kit's extensions will actually fit MUCH better around the booms where they're thinner. Now, the shape of the front end of the booms is another thing entirely... Cheers for now, Bill PS. Dumb luck part two - I measured the front of the fuselage where the radome mounts, and found that it is slightly oval-shaped, being about 0.6mm taller than it is wide. I then measured the Pavla resin radome and found that it was also out-of-round, by 0.5mm. Properly oriented (rotated) the Pavla radome is an excellent fit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hi mates, Last update for about a week, as I'm off to Munich tomorrow. First on the agenda was to shorten the booms. After comparing to my drawings, I felt that reducing their length by 3mm was appropriate. I know that 4-5mm is what is typically seen on the net, but that is to get the overall length to the correct 53' figure. If you recall in my earlier posts I pointed out that the MPM/Xtrakit Sea VIxen fuselage and wings are clearly scaled assuming the often quoted, but incorrect, number of 55'. This results in a model that is about 103% of the proper 1:72 scale. If I cut off 4-5mm of the boom, I will be altering the relative ratios of the booms to the rest of the model. What I need to do is cut off the amount that results in the boom length being 103% of scale, thereby preserving the overall appearance. That amount is approximately 3mm. Confused? Me too! So let's grab the razor saw and start ripping, shall we? If I cock it up, there's always filler! Seriously, I measured and scribed a guide line and cut down the first boom: To give you an idea of how much came off, here is a shortened boom compared to one that hasn't been cut yet. I then repeated the cut on the other boom, being VERY careful to make the booms the same length. Otherwise, we'd have some cattawampus, and that would be a bad thing. (For language lovers out there, cattawampus is an example of how we Americans are altering the mother tongue. But then, none of your guys talk like Beowulf anymore either.) For some reason at this point I decided to have a look at the refueling probe. This was because 1) I didn't want to face putting the booms on, or 2) I was tired of looking at the gaping hole near the port wing fold. MPM/Xtrakit provides two refueling probes, one made from plastic that is the correct size and shape, and one that's made from resin and is way over scale and not of the correct shape (I think). I think I'll go with the plastic one and fair it into the wing, but need to research that first. For now, let's put the booms on. This turned out to be much easier than I thought, and I believe I have the horizontal stabiliser nice and level compared to the fuselage. I had to use a bit of filler were the booms attach, but this was expected. The booms taper, so by cutting off a bit, I made that end a bit smaller than the mating part of the fuselage. Hence the filler to blend the dissimilar diameters. But all in all, not all that much as you can see in the photos. I made sure that the bottom of the booms were aligned best, because they are what will be visible. The top and most of the sides will be covered by the fuel tanks. I also superglued the Pavla resin radome on. Now she's starting to look the part. So that's it for now, be back from Germany in a week or so. Cheers! Bill (who is finding the kit quite pleasant to build actually, and is itching to have a go at the target tug paint scheme!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It certainly looks like a Sea Vixen now. I do believe you have tamed the beast. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well done that man! I'm nearly tempted to buy one of these now and have a bash myself after seeing how easy it would be.... Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 This is already shaping up to be epic. Since this kit is the one that scares me most out of my whole stash. I'll be bookmarking this. Thanks Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well done Bill! If you can bludgeon the tanks to fit then you are on the home straight as far as construction is concerned. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 On 11/17/2012 at 02:18, Duncan B said: It certainly looks like a Sea Vixen now. I do believe you have tamed the beast. Duncan B Thanks, Duncan! I like how it's taking shape, but I'm sure that I'm overlooking something. When you compare the photo of the Red Bull machine to the shot I took looking directly at the port side, it seems a quite reasonable match. On 11/17/2012 at 02:49, Harry Lime said: Well done that man! I'm nearly tempted to buy one of these now and have a bash myself after seeing how easy it would be.... Mark. Thanks, Mark. As my school days football coach used to say "You just gotta want it." I have no idea what that means, but it may be appropriate here. On 11/17/2012 at 03:50, Vulcanicity said: This is already shaping up to be epic. Since this kit is the one that scares me most out of my whole stash. I'll be bookmarking this. Thanks Bill! Thanks, Phil! The kit hasn't been that difficult so far. I think spreading the bottom fuselage sides apart to get a good fit of the intake trunks has been the key. On 11/17/2012 at 05:34, martin hale said: Well done Bill! If you can bludgeon the tanks to fit then you are on the home straight as far as construction is concerned. Martin Thanks, Martin! There is a very noticeable filet radius on the front of the tanks where they meet the leading edge of the wings - this is missing from the kit, but should be easy to make from putty. And the tanks don't fit well towards the back. To get a good fit on the sides, there will be a big gap on the top. But I have card stock, so gap or no gap, we push ahead! Off to the airport in an hour or so - I hope to visit Oberschleißheim tomorrow. I would love to get a look at the Eurofighter prototype and the Spanish He-111. Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Do you know Bill,I really think you're onto something here. You're making me want to get started on my Revell/Frog kit. I wonder if that Pavla radome and Eduard interior are any good for it too I'll have to scratch up the intake trunking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hi mates, Back from Munich - where I was able to spend an afternoon in Oberschleissheim at the Deutsches Museum aerospace "annex." Very nice indeed! How often do you get to see a Tonka parked next to a Flogger? So, where were we? Just to make sure that the modifications I made to the kit are OK, I printed out two copies of the scale drawings of the Vixen, one each scaled for 55' 7" and 53' 6.5" overall length. Setting the model on top of the 53' 6.5" drawings, and using some paint bottles to help get it lined up, it became obvious that the model is too big. Set it on the 55' 7" drawing, and we have a match! First, here is my jig: I've drawn a red line on each of the following pictures to show how well it lines up. The excellent alignment of these four points tell me that the proportions of the aircraft (nose, tail, wings) are good. Of course, since we know that the actual length of the Sea Vixen is 53' 6.5" the model is indeed over-scale. But there is nothing we can do about that. Next issue - after some research I learned that the navigator's side window is too low, and needs to be moved up. This may not be so easy...ah, what the heck let's start cutting! X-Acto number 11 blades are a wonderful thing. When brand new right out of the package, they are sharp enough to modify the Sea Vixen window, or, if you muck it up, they're also sharp enough to slit your....(let's not go there). I used the blade to "move" the top of the window up about 1mm. Then I cut some card stock and used it to "raise" the bottom of the window. The result: Having a good look at the result, I probably should have moved it up 2mm or more. But I didn't, and I'm not going to do it again! So it stays where it is. You may have noticed in the previous picture that the port tank/boom extension is installed! Oh boy, more sanding! Be back soon! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Hi mates, I've always appreciated the dedication, skill, and attention to detail that enabled Michelangelo to create exquisite sculptures. Starting with a slab of marble in a nebulous shape, it was the artist's eye that envisioned what was latent on the inside, and then coaxed it out with tender skill. This is not, however, the way to get the tanks to fit on the Xtrakit Sea Vixen. No, in this case, we assemble the tanks, dry fit to the fuselage, curse, disassemble the tanks (but just the back half, we only need the rear of the tanks spread apart to fit over the booms), dry fit again, curse again, sand a wee bit, dry fit, sand a wee bit more, dry fit, drink a pint of stout, push the tanks down to make them fit (small hammer may help here), get out the superglue applicator, have another pint of stout, carefully apply the superglue, place tanks on booms, provide slight pressure over sides of tanks to ensure good adhesion of superglue, reach for superglue remover with other hand, apply to fingers which have been temporarily attached to booms, open stout tap directly into mouth (empty all contents from keg), try to glue tanks on again (if at first you don't succeed, so much for skydiving), repeat process until happy or superglue is permanent (whichever comes first), apply putty, sand, apply more putty, sand some more, looks like you still need some more putty, sand again, how could it possible need more putty, sand some more, well if you used good old Milliput instead of that lousy automotive putty that shrinks you wouldn't have this problem, and so on. But eventually you get there. By there, I mean that the tanks are on, and things look pretty good. Somewhere I learned about the fairings that make a nice filet radius where the front of the tanks meet the leading edge of the wing. I replicated this by using wall repair paste, since you can shape it with a wet cloth instead of sandpaper. Much easier when you're working in a tight spot like that. So here she is! Looks like some work on the outer wings sections is next on the list. I also added the very nicely moulded resin front landing gear. Not too crazy that the tire was moulded integral with the gear, but that's what they make little tiny paint brushes for. Let's see, oh yeah, I also put in the refueling port using the plastic kit part, not the resin part. This required some wall repair paste to fill in a portion of the big honking hole in the leading edge of the port wing. I think she'll look OK under a few coats of paint. Cheers, Bill PS. The tanks weren't really that bad. I was exaggerating a little. But just a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Nice work on the booms. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Boom bangabang as the old song goes! It must be in the final home straight now, surely the worst must be over? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 On 11/29/2012 at 22:56, martin hale said: Nice work on the booms. Martin Thanks, Martin. You weren't too far off when you used the word "bludgeon" earlier! On 11/30/2012 at 05:37, Duncan B said: Boom bangabang as the old song goes! It must be in the final home straight now, surely the worst must be over? Duncan B Ah, T Rex. I'm old enough to remember that! (Or I'm so hopelessly out of touch that I don't know the new song you're referring to!) Yes, I think the worse is over. I've been dry fitting the wings, doing some sanding (mostly to get the very small dihedral right), and they will fit just fine. I've been thinking whether I should add some rods to make a stronger joint, but I may just use some Gorilla Glue or epoxy. So far, the only really difficult part has been fitting the tanks onto the booms. The kit is certainly not shake and bake, but for me it doesn't live up to its web persona of being unbuildable. If my back cooperates, I hope to have the wings on and at least get to the primer stage over the weekend. Cheers, Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanicity Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 This is excellent work; and imaginatively, humorously written to boot. Great stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdb27 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Great build and great work Bill. Makes you wonder if the manufacturers really ever build one their products! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 On 12/1/2012 at 19:17, atdb27 said: Great build and great work Bill. Makes you wonder if the manufacturers really ever build one their products! Adrian True! That was one good thing about those crummy old boxes that had a picture of the built model on the cover instead of artwork. They built it at least once! So, where were we? Yes, folks, it's time to finish those wings, and get this puppy ready for some atomized pigments in a binder of cellulose! (Lacquer primer, maybe?) First up, I added the gear doors that were normally closed on the ground. These are the two largest of the main gear doors, and the rear door for the front bay. Before they go on, though, I added some wires and small diameter solder in the gear bays to mimic some totally fictitious hydraulic and pneumatic lines. For some reason MPM/Xtrakit decided to make two of the front gear doors out of resin - why, I'm not sure, especially since they are depicted as flat rectangles. Someone must have stock in the resin mills. So on they go! And I immediately realized that I needed to add some lumps/bumps that they forgot and are present on the real thing. So I did. Like this: I flipped the model over, and for the first time I noticed that the fuel tanks on the booms have been depicted as conforming to the "area rule" i.e. an old Coke bottle shape. Do you notice it? I wonder if this is right... Next, I mounted the wings. Since this is a short run kit, and has no mounting pegs, I used epoxy glue in addition to my normal liquid cement to make sure that the wings, well, stay on! After letting the epoxy cure, I blended the wings into the rest of the fuselage. At this point, I also added the tail cone and jet pipes which I had assembled earlier. By using the FAA Models resin tail cone, and adding the kit jet pipes and exhaust faces, you can create a more realistic "back end." If you used the kit parts, the exhaust faces would be far too close to the end of the fuselage. Then I snapped a few photos as I "thought" I was ready for paint. But, hey, it really does look like a Sea Vixen! But right about the time I was about to fire up the old compressor, I had one of those moments. No, not one of those holy frijole I just dropped my 1:32 Tamiya Mustang onto a concrete floor moments, just one of those don't paint it yet, I forgot something moments. So what did I forget? Two things! I forgot the stiffeners that go on the air brake, and while in the general area I forgot those funny brackets that XS587 had (but which apparently no other Sea Vixen on Earth did). Here she is after I added the aforementioned moment precursors. OK, now we gotta paint this bird, 'cause I'm really tired of looking at the plastic, the old grey primer (in places), the ugly red putty, and my shoddy workmanship which will probably be hidden by a good coat of real primer. I've been using Alclad's grey lacquer primer lately, I really like it. Covers all this mess quickly, and does a great job of filling fine scratches, etc. So open the windows, put on my gas mask, fire up the painting booth, and spray, baby, spray! The neighbours won't think anything about the gray fog coming out of my window. Hey, they know me, right? Anybody want to guess what I forgot, and didn't notice until I was done with the primer? Have a good look! Holy cow! It looks better than I thought it would! Yikes! Honey, can I quit my day job now? Man, if the RN had painted the Vixens overall Light Gull Grey I'd be ready for the transfers right now. But, no, I had to pick the crazy technicolor target tug scheme. When will I learn? Enjoy the pix, I'll be back soon - for sure there's something I can screw up! Cheers, Bill PS. Did anyone guess the fuel vent on the starboard wing? Well, why didn't you warn me ahead of time? Arghhh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 its looking really nice Bill and youve sold me on the Pavla Nose fix for my work in progress........ are you happy with the "bulbous" shape to the front of the booms as molded by xtrakit....?. I feel the major fault in the kit is their "chunkiness " when compared to photos of the real airframe , in side profile they are fine , but when you do a birds eye view looking down onto the wing surface they seem way to blunt and rounded instead of the nice pointy shape they should be ( it also generates that coke bottle look to the booms that you mention .....But like me you may be sick of all the sanding......and sanding..... and the sanding.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 this pic should hopefully show what i mean [/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Jeez Neil,I see what you mean. I think Frog rather got the forward end of the pinion tanks much better than Xtrakit did. Bill get sanding again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 On 12/2/2012 at 07:15, Neil Lambess said: this pic should hopefully show what i mean [/img] Neil, go to the Thunder & Lightnings site, and have a look at the survivor picture of XJ494. I think this shows your concern much better than the photo you linked. You're right, they are much thinner at the front in the plan view, almost the same cross section as in the side view. But the coke bottle is real, that photo of XJ494 shows it quite well. Miggers, is that what they're called? Pinion tanks? I've been looking for that word all through this project! Now I can go back and edit all my earlier posts. I think I know how to fix this...stay tuned for another chapter in the never-ending saga. Wifey calls it the "model that will never be finished, part two." After my Lightning project, which did in fact get finished! Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 So isn't it about now that Airfix announce a new 1/72 Sea Vixen scaled down from thier 1/48 kit? Sea Vixen envy is a terrible thing!! Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat C Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Looking good Bill. Interesting that the NACA ducts on the boom lined up with the tank cut-out once you had shortened them!! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Yes Bill,pinion tanks. Tell you something else though,looking at your excellent(so far)efforts with the Xtrakit monster, they look very wide/flat across the tops in comparison to that pic of XP924 that Neil has linked too. I know that some of the boys thinned the tanks down quite considerably on their inner faces and ground off a lot of the kit booms too before they were happy with the fit and profile of them. IIRC,there wasn't a lot of booms left under the tanks at all with Keefr's when he'd finally got the tanks mounted to his satisfaction. That pic in Neil's link just shows how slim the booms and tanks actually are. I'm sure Neil once built and modded a Froggie and filled the kit booms with filler then sanded away most of the plastic to get the booms down to a scale slimness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think I know how to fix this...stay tuned for another chapter in the never-ending saga. Wifey calls it the "model that will never be finished, part two." After my Lightning project, which did in fact get finished! I see what you mean re the coke bottle effect on the thunder and lightnings site Doh ! more work for us both ! Humble apologies for giving you more sanding work on the pinion tanks Bill , but felt prudent to pont it out before you discovered it when it was too late to do anything about , its easy to miss the bizzare thing about the pinion tanks is, as molded by xtrakit ,they would have added a LOT more fuel than they do in real life...... I half suspect their sharp pointy nature has something to do with the designers sense of asthetics than maximum fuel capacity ( Pointy looks faster !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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