eagledocf15 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 OK - apologies for lack of updates since before Telford. The show presented the opportunity to compare with the forthcoming ZM kit and compare notes with my Luftwaffe-o-phile friend Matt Low. We've been exchanging emails/photos/thoughts over past few weeks and have come up with some tweaks that can be made to the kit. Getting back on track over the weekend - so will reveal what we've found and what I'm doing with the kit then. As said before - an excellent kit at an astonishing price! Stay tuned! Iain Can you be more specific on the tweaks and information on the UHU you found? Also how do the two kits compare? Thanks! Looking forward to more info and builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Hi folks, As promised - here’s what we’ve found so far. Please bear in mind I don’t have access to a real UHU for exact measurements and thoughts are based upon comparison of kit parts to photos - from multiple angles. Some of the images I've put links for now - pending permissions to re-purpose. So - these are thoughts and observations only - not necessarily fact. I’m listing them here as it may help others with their builds and act as a catalyst to any further thoughts. Also - no kit is perfect. The comments that will follow are meant in a positive manner and are not a swipe at the Revell kit - but thoughts on how it can be improved. Part 1: Fuselage Rear Comparison with ZM kit at Telford showed that there was a difference in spine profile - the Revell kit’s flat top surface running further back before becoming a curve. Additionally - study of the kit parts on the sprue showed what appeared to be a clumsy CAD generated blend between the the upper 3/4 (and lower 3/4) fuselage curves at the rear and the flat sides. Pix from http://www.flyian.ne...smanx/he219.htm http://www.flyian.ne...manx/he219f.jpg http://www.flyian.ne...anx/he219sr.jpg http://www.flyian.ne...smanx/he219.htm And from http://www.wingsontheweb.com a great internal view showing cross sectional shape looking forwards towards schrage musik installation: As you’ll hopefully see - the Revell kit is a little out. Side and plan profiles look very good - so should simply be a case of blending/curving the shapes with some coarse wet and dry on a flat sanding bar. Photo’s will follow when I get there. Part 2: Nacelle Shape to follow shortly. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Part 2: Nacelle Shape Again, comparison with the ZM kit at Telford threw up a few differences - one of the most noticeable being the curvature of the top of the nacelles in cross section above the wing. Revell has it flatter than ZM. Careful study of photos threw up possibly conflicting conclusions - until we found some images of the NASM machine with the nacelles in parts showing clearly the cross sectional profile - see piccie below: Compare to kit: Conclusion being that both the top cross section isn’t deep/curved enough - and the same with the underside. This would also back up some previously ‘controversial’ comments on the interweb in recent months that reckoned the nacelles were too thin in side elevation - add more curve top and bottom with plastic sheet, or filler, sanded back and the nacelles wont’t appear so anaemic. The profile where they meet the cowl rings looks OK (I think). Just deciding on simplest way to correct this. Coming shortly - Part 3: Nacelle Thrust Line Iain Edited December 2, 2012 by Iain (32SIG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Part 3: Nacelle Thrust Line This one caused some head scratching at first - and almost caused me to bin the project. Fortunately it’s an easy ‘fix’ as I’ll cover in a moment. Something didn’t look right on the model once the wings were slid onto the spars - I couldn’t put a finger on it until Matt questioned the thrust line and we had a eureka moment. Looking at as many images as we can find it appears the thrust line of the engines and cowls points ever so slightly down at the front. Look at the following images - particularly taking note of the exhaust line compared to the fuselage (the exhausts will be perpendicular to engine thrust line). You’ll hopefully spot that these are indeed pointing ever so slightly down at the front compared to the fuselage. Sorry - only joking - it's not *that* far out! In the Revell kit they actually point up a little. Also - the nacelles at the rear - in the Revell kit the rear ‘pointy bit’ is further down on the fuselage side than would appear correct from the fuselage. Conclusion at this point was that the cowls needed cutting up and re-positioning with respect to the wing. Bog - this could be getting complicated... Then ‘Eureka!!’... Looking at photos of the wing roots and the angle of wing tips compared to fuselage it appears that if the wings’ angle of incidence is reduced by removing a small amount from the top of the ‘front spar’ we should be able to correct the thrust line issue - this appears to be backed up by the relative position of the wing root leading edge to the horizontal panel line just below (assuming that’s correctly positioned). http://www.flyian.ne...x/he219root.jpg So this now appears an easy fix - only a few degrees - but should make a difference to the overall stance of the model. Next up - Part 4: Cowl Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Part 4: Cowl Nice easy one this! The cowls as moulded by Revell exhibit fairly soft recessed detail around the cowl flaps (or gills - or whatever you want to call them ) and it’s ‘flat’ - whereas the original had overlapping petals - as seen in image below: http://www.flyian.ne...he219engine.jpg Fortunately that modelling magician Radu has come up with a set of etched brass flaps and these transform the kit parts - will be adding those to the model shortly. http://www.radubstor...products_id=427 Next up - Part 5: Nose Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Part 5: Nose This was the final item that came up in discussion over the ZM kit - with myself, Matt and a member of the ZM team - the nose/windshield. Basically the nose/windshield on the ZM kit is noticeably thinner and more pointed - so far study of images not totally conclusive - but we’d err towards the ZM kit being more accurate. http://www.flyian.ne...manx/he219f.jpg http://www.flyian.ne...x/he219nose.jpg The curve on the front base of the windshield looks a little 'flat' on the kit to my eyes: Whilst not fully decided on what to do, or if to do anything at all, if it does warrant a fix it will probably need a new clear section moulding - the nose looks like it may just need a gentle pinch at the top. And to sum up - so far - Part 6: General coming to a browser near you shortly... Have fun, Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Part 6: General We've also spotted the moulded 'ledge/crease' just below the canopy sills on the kit are a little exaggerated and the fuel fillers on the rectangular panel on the upper surface - rear of nacelles - is positioned wrongly on that rectangular panel. It's moulded towards rear of that panel - when it should be towards the front. That's about it for now - there are probably other things that we may, or may not, discover - but hopefully explains why I became temporarily stalled on the project. Hopefully will start to make progress again shortly and demonstrate some of the things I'm doing. So that’s what we think we’ve found so far. Please feel free to chip in with thoughts - and please keep them positive. Any negative posts/rants and I’ll be asking a mod to remove offending posts. The comments above are meant as positive improvements to the kit and not intended to rip it apart (I certainly don’t think we do.) Is the ZM kit more accurate in overall shape? Having compared the two in-front of our eyes and following subsequent research - it looks like it. Is the Revell kit a pup? Certainly not! My take is that in the UK the Revell kit is approximately £100 cheaper - that’s worth a little trade off in terms of the shaping required in my book. The ZM kit looks stunning - a step ahead of anything they’ve done to date (and I may yet get one) - but both kits have a very valid (and different) place in the market. Both kits look superb when built straight from the box! I’ll now try and crack on further with my build - I know I said it would be straight from the box - but hey, ho, that’s obviously not the way I’m wired! One final note - appears many UHUs used Me 262 treaded tyres - so may fit some aftermarket jobbies for a little difference from the norm. Happy modelling! Iain Edited December 2, 2012 by Iain (32SIG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic Mike Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 That's an excellent - and definitely not a hatchet job - list of observations and corrections. Luckily, with their being (I believe) just the one of these beasties in existence, not many people will ever be able criticise! So the ZM is going to be humoungusly expensive this side of the Pacific, I suppose. Particularly once HMRC have decided to add a random import duty, plus exchange rate, plus postage, etc, grumble, gripe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CockneyCol Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I've got to agree Iain, The ZM kit is mint and accurate, but for £100 difference I can live with Revell's effort and make a few minor changes to it and still have cash in my pocket. i guess if you really have to have the most stunning Uhu then ZM have the edge by a huge margin. The Revell kit is still cracking for the price. The build is looking good. Cheers Col' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Hmmm - have a mirror of this thread over on Large Scale Planes and now scratching my head again over these nacelles and thrust lines etc... Comparing the two - I still think the front of the cowls needs rotating downwards just a little. BUT - it's the pointy bit at the rear that's causing some head scratching now - look at relative positions of trailing edge fairings on nacelle - and vertical position of the rear pointy bit. Almost follows a line on the original - but tail point is lower with respect to trailing edge fairing on model - if that makes sense? Thoughts anyone? Boy do I wish I had access to the NASM right now! Iain Edited December 3, 2012 by Iain (32SIG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Looks like the T/E is in line with the nacelle tip on the real thing. Looks like Revell have boobed there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adats-Coyote Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) I think I've put the finger on the fuselage/nose/canopy shape issue and would like to help: I agree with all that was said earlier and would like too add my 2 cents if I may... -The canopy looks too flat? yup -Fuselage curves off and have flat spots? Yes! -The belly looks a bit off which affects the belly guns' location? Check! Photos to compare: et Well, I have examined the instructions and photos ... And I think I have pinpointed the error that affects the whole thing: The fuselage is around 2 mm TOO wide! How do I come to this conclusion? I found the instrument panel unbalanced, with the middle panel too small... It's both sides that are too wide because the fuselage is too wide! Supporting Evidence: This affects the canopy, nose shape, the curvature of the fuselage viewed from the front, the four cannons on the belly etc ... My opinion is that by having the fuselage too wide by those 2 offending mm, the cad was adjusted accordingly incorporating that flaw and affected the whole design/look! Which confirms what Iain (32SIG) showed on the earlier post...Therefore you need to remove the offending width and adjust the curves accordingly ... not easy the way the body is divided ... And then the nose... And let's not talk about the canopy... And your proposed fix for the wings thrust line should be the way to go I think... It's just that the wings seem to high on the nacelles as viewed from the side which also affects the cross-section which seems too square This is not a criticism to bring the kit down, it's just for your info. And at the low price we are paying (comparing to what Z-M want's)for this superb kit I won't complain! I already have one, having a great time building it (haven't felt this about a kit since forever) and will be buying 2 or 3 more Revell kits and have one Z-M kit on pre-order!! To hel* with the shape errors! In my opinion they are minor and offset each-other! I will only correct the props, the belly guns, lower the thrust line and maybe compress the gear a little to show combat weight... And THAT is it! The bottom line for me is: It looks like a 219 and that's what's important! I love this kit! Edited December 8, 2012 by Adats-Coyote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Update... I've parked this one for now - we've had a similar thread running over on Large Scale Planes and what started as a simple build has now reached a point where I need to do some serious re-building of the engine nacelles and some tweaking of the nose/windshield. Whilst I'm happy to wield a razor saw when the occasion arises I've lost my MoJo on this one for now. If anyone wants to see where we got to you can take a look at the relevant thread over on LSP here. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Fixing the nacelles/cowlings: I've been a little constrained by the fact I'd already assembled the nacelles - but a fresh look has provided a bit of a eureka moment (I think). I now have a cutting (cunning?) plan for where to apply a scalpel and razor saw that will get me a lot closer to where I think the shape needs to be. For the purposes of this exercise I'm going to assume the relationship of engine thrust line (exhaust cutout) to wing chord line is right and that I'll be adjusting the front spar to reduce the wings AoA and correct thrust line down relative to the fuselage when the wings are fitted to fuselage. Other advantage of this route is that it will keep the gear bay intact and keep the main gear position more or less the same as standard kit (modifications to reflect compression aside) and the front diameter of the cowlings will still match those of the radiator cowls. Vertical razor saw cut along rear edge of the tape - top and bottom. Scalpel cut along black lines to rear... Remove rear of nacelle. Reinforce wing structure. Rotate rear of nacelle upwards at rear by required amount by rotating about the bottom joint (where razor saw cut was made) and removing material from top. Amount to be advised. Make good gaps in nacelle with plastic sheet where removed from wing. Cut back wing fillet areas to get best fit. Re-attach rear nacelle. Build up hatched areas and top of nacelle/cowl with Milliput to blend in an 'fatten' the cowl area. Rescribe. Stand back and scratch head... If all that goes to plan - I'll attack the Port side. If it doesn't - it's back in the loft young Owl!! Pix: Iain Edited January 9, 2013 by Iain (32SIG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Say whut now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 And don't get me started on the fuselage - yet anyway Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 OK - I said I'd cut plastic - and so far more sucessful than I could have hoped (I may not even have to reinforce the wing): Off to do some spraying on the P-26 now - but will probably cut out the Port one in the same way now! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brody Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 What a enjoyable build so far keep it coming lain. Brody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic Mike Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I note that Zoukei-Mura are taking steps... http://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/sentiment/oyajiblog_038.html What an extraordinarily dedicated man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelvk Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 There's some serious dedication going on with this build.. Personally I would've eyeballed the kit, gone: "Meh.. It'll do.." Well done for not being a lazy bugger like myself. I note that Zoukei-Mura are taking steps... http://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/sentiment/oyajiblog_038.htmlWhat an extraordinarily dedicated man! Oh wow! That shot of the cockpit is almost worthy as a vignette in its own right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clift Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I am impressived with all you have done to date, looking foward to seeing the end result! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Port side rear nacelle now removed also - just waiting for a slight repair to dry - then some fixing - I may return with photo's later... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Some pix that will hopefully explain a little more... Full nacelles removed - including the front sections. Rear nacelles have been cleaned up and the wing openings enlarged. The rears will be bonded in new position in nexrt few days - rotating about a point just ahead of each firewall to bring the tail point of the nacelle to it's correct position in relation to wing chord line (i.e. up). Once these have dried I'll have a play with the cowlings... Once these are fitted at a better angle I'll blend into the rest of the nacelle with Milliput - especially over the top of the wing where there's a lot more of a bulge than in the Revell kit. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 And - in breaking news - appear to have found drawings that look a lot more like photos of the real thing in the AJ-Press Heinkel He 219 Uhu book. They appear to support the whole rotating the nacelle/cowl about the wing chord line as, in profile (and ignoring the curve along the top of the cowl), they match the Revell nacelles quite well!! Of course this would support idea that Revell may well have measured everything up from the real thing but got the relative positions wrong. Please don't read the above as gospel - just my own personal thoughts in progress. I'll be back! Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagledocf15 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Any update? Really fantastic work thus far! Edited February 23, 2013 by eagledocf15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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