W.W.II German panther tank question?

[Smudger2]

Hi,

I have a question for Panther tank fans here,what are the two odd shaped boxes on the rear of the tanks hull,either side of the exhausts,one each side?

Most model manufacturers have these on there Panther tank kits,however the 1/76 scale AIRFIX Panther tank does not have them,is this a manufacturing error on airfix's part or were they just not fitted to all Panther tanks?

So basicly,what are they and were they fitted to all Panther tanks?

Can anyone answer these questions?

Many thanks,

Rob

[pigsty]

They're stowage bins and were fitted to all Panthers, although patterns varied with time. If the Airfix kit doesn't have them (I built mine donkey's years back, I can't remember!) it's a mistake on their part, but it's the least of that kit's problems.

Edited October 23, 2012 by pigsty

[Smudger2]

Hi,

Thanks for the info,so you think all panther tanks had these stowage boxes fitted,probably on production in the factories.

As airfix's Panther doesn't have these stowage boxes,did the panthers ever not have them fitted?

Or is it definatly a mistake by airfix in ommitting them from their kit?

What else is wrong with the airfix panther tank then? Ands does anyone do any replacement parts to correct the airfix kit?

Regards Rob

[pigsty]

The bins were made of thin steel sheet so they were quite easy to damage or knock off. Formally, Airfix's kit could portray one that's lost both, but I doubt it. (There's a whole cottage industry devoted to depicting damaged bins.)

Other problems from memory:

• the tracks are too short and nothing like the real thing's;
• the decals and colour scheme are made up (some releases showed it in North Africa, where the Panther never reached);
• the gun is too short and fat;
• a lot of details on the hull and turret are over-simplified, even by 1/72 or 1/76 standards, and the tools aren't up to much.

This is probably a bit over-critical, though, considering the kit's age. I think it's older than me. I'm afraid I don't know of any upgrades, but that's only because I left braille-scale armour a long while back and am completely out of date on it.

[Seahawk]

This is probably a bit over-critical, though, considering the kit's age. I think it's older than me.

It's certainly much older than Pigsty! Not a kit I've looked at for 35 years or so but back then the wisdom was that the kit was far too squat. An article in Military Modelling around 1971-72 set about correcting that (longitudinal bulkheads to raise the sponsons higher above the wheels, changed angle to glacis plate, etc) and I did the conversion twice. The gun may have been too long (that rings a bell) but surely not too fat: it looks too thin for a 75mm round to escape from it as it is. The tracks are horrible too: look nothing like the real thing

Basically this kit hasn't really been worth looking at since the Matchbox Panther came out in the late 70s (and there have been much better offerings since then). Even back in the 70s its main value lay in its gun barrel (which was always in high demand for 17 pounder or US 76mm guns) and its wheels (which with their diameter reduced could be used to provide the missing outer set of wheels on the Airfix Tiger).

But then, let's not be too hard on this ancient relic. It was first in the field - and I suspect Airfix may have based it and the Tiger on battered examples missing lots of their fittings (eg Panther stowage boxes, Tiger combat wheels and turret bin).

[Smudger2]

OK then,thanks guys,we have established the arifix 1/76 scale Panther and Tiger kits as not very accurate and to basicly give them a wide birth.

Does anyone know to an aftermarket source for some 1/76 scale panther tank rear stowage bins then? As i have 3 tanks to rectify now.

If these kits are made with such inaccuracies,why havn't airfix withdrawn them from sale and re-tooled them?

Many thanks,

Rob

[Wolfpack]

Does anyone know to an aftermarket source for some 1/76 scale panther tank rear stowage bins then? As i have 3 tanks to rectify now.

Cheapest way would be to buy three decent Panthers and nick a bin from each, thats if you're not up to scratch building. If the three are Airfix, I'd use 'em for spares and stock up with other kits.

If these kits are made with such inaccuracies,why havn't airfix withdrawn them from sale and re-tooled them?

Simply, cost. These moulds will have recouped their costs donkeys years ago. New ones will cost the earth and re-tooling is pointless because there are far better kits out there and people still buy these Airfix oldies (can't for the life of me think why) so the money keeps rolling in.

W

[Smudger2]

Hi,

Simply, cost. These moulds will have recouped their costs donkeys years ago. New ones will cost the earth and re-tooling is pointless because there are far better kits out there and people still buy these Airfix oldies (can't for the life of me think why) so the money keeps rolling in.

HHHMMMMM,

And i am one of them,as i bought 3x airfix panthers,however i do have a matchbox 1/76 scale panther tank comeing my way,i shall have to see about getting the stowage boxes copied,or buy some.

That puts the question back to where can i buy some panther tank stowage boxes from?

Has anyone got a source for these items?

Regards Rob

[BWP]

That puts the question back to where can i buy some panther tank stowage boxes from? Has anyone got a source for these items?

No source for them that I'm aware of, but they're very easy to knock up out of plastic card.

Edit: thinking about it, you can get PE sets for some of the various 1/72 kits available (usually intended for the Revell and Dragon kits), and I'm pretty sure that at least some of those PE sets will include replacement stowage bins (to assemble in PE). PE sets are available from Part, Voyager, Eduard & E.T. Model. A relatively expensive option though.

Otherwise, your options are stealing them from another kit: Matchbox 1/76, Nitto/Fujimi 1/76, Matchbox/Revell Jagdpanther 1/76, Revell Jagdpanther 1/72 (wrongly-scaled, it's actually almost 1/76), Revell Panther 1/72, Dragon Panther or Jagdpanther 1/72, Trumpeter Jagdpanther 1/72, Hasegawa Panther 1/72. For the size of these bins, the difference in scale between 1/72 & 1/76 is almost invisible. Of course, if you steal the bins from another (better) kit, than that kit will be without bins; ultimately, then, a pointless exercise since the worst of these kits is far superior to the Airfix Panther; build the other kits instead!

The answer to the question "what's wrong with the Airfix Panther" is "everything". If you just want to glue some plastic together, of course, it's perfectly fine (even despite the age of its moulds). If you want an accurate Panther in 1/76, though, there is not a single part that does not need some sort of modification, and there are several items (not just the bins) missing that will need to be scratch-built*. It can be done, and as an exercise to demonstrate/practice your modelling skills it's as good as any other, as long as you're aware of what you're in for. Scratch-building the stowage bins is the easiest, most trivial part of the entire exercise.

* Dan Taylor Models make a very nice set of resin "German AFV accessories" in 1/76 that very nicely covers 90% of the missing items from the Airfix (and Matchbox) Panther kits (but not the stowage bins).

Edited October 26, 2012 by BWP

[Smudger2]

Hi BWP,

Thanks for the info,very informative at that,i bought 3x airfix panthers,basicly as they were the cheapest on the market at the present time,possibly a big mistake on my part then.

Looks like copying the matchbox panther's stowage boxes then,the only thing that bothers me is how do i get the cross shaped swages pattern onto the rear face of the stowage box if i scatchbuild them from plasticard?

Many thank,

Rob

[pigsty]

the only thing that bothers me is how do i get the cross shaped swages pattern onto the rear face of the stowage box if i scatchbuild them from plasticard?</em>

Don't use plastic card for that face. Yoghurt pots are made from very, very thin polystyrene. If you get some square ones (the ones that come in blocks of four or six) there's enough flat sheet to do any number of boxes. What you do is build the box mostly out of actual card, then cut out a section of yoghurt pot for the rear face, and before you attach it, use a ball-point pen on a soft surface (eg a cutting mat) to press the X into it.

[Smudger2]

Cheers pigsty,i will try that method.

Many thanks,

Rob

[Peter Lloyd]

As others have implied, are you sure it's worth starting? It's often been said, but the Airfix Panther is also a combination of Ausf G hull sides (wrong depth and angles anyway) and Ausf A front glacis, the separate axles are a cruel thing to do to their customers, the less said about the engine deck the better, and the whole thing is grossly underdetailed and toy like.

My favourite inaccuracy is the box art showing palm trees: the Panther never fought in Africa, and I like to think this is Airfix's way of suggesting this kit requires a bit of suspension of disbelief.

But to your question, you could take a mould off the Matchbox stowage bins with Silastic and cast a few in epoxy, either two-part glue or putty. These bins also have flip-up lids on top.

[steveinns]

As commented on in previous posts, the Airfix Panther is not to be recommended. It was my first AFV model and the experience left me quite traumatised for some years as it was an absolute dog to get together. All those torsion bars to glue in, the wheel holes all had to be opened up and it did'nt even look like a Panther !

Fortunately, my next model was the Airfix T 34, as far more enjoyable experience.

Personally, I'd go for the Dragon Panther G with the zimmerit, a lovely model by all accounts. The Esci/Italeri Panther A is a favourite of mine, although the tracks on the ESCI moulding are absolutely awful, get the Italeri boxing, it has link and length tracks in it and are vastly superior. The turret comes in for some criticism, too wide in the front, but at least it looks like a Panther and is an imposing looking model, well I think so !

[Sgt.Squarehead]

If you have a look on the ATF there are a couple of excellent threads detailing how to upgrade the Airfix Panther.....It's not a task for the fainthearted though!

Here's one of them: http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=17201&hilit=panther

There are no truly top notch mid-late Panther kits in 1/72; both of Revell's have misshapen hulls, Dragon's Ausf Gs (& F) are clunky to assemble and need many details replacing, The turret of the ESCI/Italeri Ausf A kit is too wide at the front, All the Hasegawa Panthers are crap (but they are unique in having the correct number of roadwheel bolts IIRC).....I've not yet seen the Zvezda or Dragon Ausf D kits, hopefully they will be a bit better, although I believe the Dragon kit may have the wrong style of tracks.

I'm trying to bash a pair of reasonably accurate 1/72 Ausf A's from Italeri hulls with Revell turrets (Italeri Cupolas) and Dragon running gear, possibly with Hasegawa outer roadwheels if I can find a couple of Ausf A kits cheap enough to justify buying them just for sixteen roadwheels.....Progress is glacially slow!

Edited April 10, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[KRK4m]

On 4/9/2013 at 9:41 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

There are no truly top notch mid-late Panther kits in 1/72; both of Revell's have misshapen hulls, Dragon's Ausf Gs (& F) are clunky to assemble and need many details replacing, The turret of the ESCI/Italeri Ausf A kit is too wide at the front, All the Hasegawa Panthers are crap (but they are unique in having the correct number of roadwheel bolts IIRC).....I've not yet seen the Zvezda or Dragon Ausf D kits, hopefully they will be a bit better, although I believe the Dragon kit may have the wrong style of tracks.

As since then (April 2013) five years have elapsed what is your opinion about the new-tool Panthers by Dragon (styrene hull A, D and G), Zvezda and Trumpeter? Being neither a rivet-counter nor a visible interior maniac I'd like to build something well-scaled dimensionally, proportionally shaped and crisply moulded. Are these news better than all these 20th Century rubbish?

Cheers

Michael