RAF Sabres

[Paul J]

Maybe , Jennings, you should post up your graphic 'Sabre Wings Demystified ' again to revise peoples memories and to help clarify this to newcomers to the Sabre.

[James Craik]

Jennings....

James (who also insists on validating his POV by comparison of other kits) has shown by his own measurements of a preserved Sabre 6, that the Heller wing is a 6-3 wing. I include the following: (italics are James)

I took the liberty of going to the Canadian warplanes museum and measured the wing on a Mk6.from leading edge to trailing edge it is 123.5 inches or 313,7cms.which is 6.54 cms in 1/48.The Milberry drawing is 6.3 cms which is 2,4 mm two narrow.

Thanks, James. That's what this discussion needed and what I requested, earlier.

Never assume that all scale drawings are correct.

That's true, but it's sometimes all we have. Not everyone has a preserved example available to them, so it's either rely on the 'scale drawings' or a third party that has access to a preserved example to do what you did and measure the questionable area, on our behalf.

That not only resolves the accuracy of the drawings, but it also confirms another matter ... and that is the question of the Heller wing ... is it narrow-cord or 6-3? Your measurement of 123.5" (10' 29") confirms that, at a shade over 10' as measured by a SAM scale ruler laid against the wing root of a upper wing half ... the Heller wing is indeed representative of a 6-3 wing.

Thanks again for checking the Sabre 6 at the CWH on our behalf."

How can the Heller wing be the narrow-cord wing if it agrees with an actual measurement of a Sabre 6 wing root?

James' insistance is based upon that the Heller kit is narrower than the Fujimi wing. For this, he has to make the assumption that the Fujimi wing is infalibly correct. Considering the span of the Fujimi wing is a whole foot less than the published span for the Canadair Sabre (all varients) - that's one strike against it. What else is wrong with it?

Anyway, there is one quote that sums up this hobby ...'Build what you want and how you want" or something to that effect; James' reply to the above post sums his POV up nicely...

No,the heller wing is slightly narrower than the 6/3 wing and the others are slightly wider.But for my building purposes,the two side by side with the differences shown Heller is narrow cord and Fujimi and the others are 6/3.

By 'others', I assume that James means Hobbycraft & Academy. There may be a few others who've based their kits on Fujimi, other than the two I've mentioned... so it's no surprise he claims 'all the others' dispute the Heller wing. If Fujimi is wrong, so are they. He's entitled to that position, but what I do find surprising is that he chooses to ignore his own conclusive findings and maintain his position soley on the basis of a comparison of model kits.

Anyway, individual modellers can make their own decision. I'll continue to use available confirmed & verifiable measurements (as James provided) to answer questions of accurcy rather than rely on another kit.

Scott

The Mk6 wing cord measures 4.36 mm in 1/72 scale at the root,The Heller is 4.25,Fujimi 4.35,Hobbycraft 4.32,Hasegawa 4.35 and Scoobidoo 4.0,draw your own conclusions.I stated earlier that the Heller wing was narrower than the rest and I am not prepared to tear down a wing for millimeters,so as is the Heller being narrower than the others was for me a Mk2/4.

[Paul J]

The Mk6 wing cord measures 4.36 mm in 1/72 scale at the root,The Heller is 4.25,Fujimi 4.35,Hobbycraft 4.32,Hasegawa 4.35 and Scoobidoo 4.0,draw your own conclusions.I stated earlier that the Heller wing was narrower than the rest and I am not prepared to tear down a wing for millimeters,so as is the Heller being narrower than the others was for me a Mk2/4.

If you're saying the Heller kit wing IS narrower and OK for a Sabre 2/4, then that is fine for me because it is what I was trying to say several posts ago. Thank you James.

I'm off now to continue refrurbing my dismantled Heller kit and resurrect it as a F2 or 4. And be happy with it!!!

[Scott Hemsley]

Jennings.....

Sorry, I missed that exchange. So we're then saying that all the other 1/72 kits are wrong, in that their wings have a greater chord than the Heller kit???

A short answer to your question, would be "yes".

Some time back, I was planning a Sabre Mk.2 build based on the Heller kit, but I wanted to depict the slats deployed as it would be on the ground. Therefore, I compared the Fujimi and Hobbycraft Sabre wings against the specs as printed in Milberry's book on the Sabre - to see if I could modify the wing to a narrow-cord wing while retaining the slats and basically use them with the Heller fuselage... and that's when I came across the 'wing root' cord and overall span dimension issues. I admit I never had an Academy wing to measure, but considering the kit's similarity to the Fujimi tooling - I wouldn't be surprised if it had the same issues. I also would imagine the same issues would be found in any other 72nd Sabre kit that was heavily influenced by the Fujimi tooling - unless the mfgrs.first addressed the shortcomings of the Fujimi tooling..

It's like the problem that permiates 'scale drawings' and 'profiles' - an error is made in one & instead of others doing their own research, they base their work upon the previous drawings - thus perpetuating the error until it becomes so entrenched that over time, the initial error is readily accepted as fact by many in the modelling community.

Scott