Italeri Sunderland Mk.I - It's done...well 99.9% !

[LDSModeller]

As to why Italeri have added a porthole that shouldn't be there at all, what about the old Aviation News scale drawings mentioned earlier in this thread? I haven't seen them, but would they also have that error? Just a guess on my part, of course.

Cheers,

Jukka

Hi Jukka

Yes the Scale drawings do have the Porthole, I had been playing around with copies of them

for my build (Mk III) and had forgotten about them until the italeri Sunderland porthole issue came up.

I have included my build here (which incidently I should finish posting) as I thought I had a clear picture

of the plans, how ever it doesn't having had a look through.I'll include it here it has some things a Modeller

can use for the Mk I such as the interior (all marks had similar lay out - mostly)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47663

Check out this link, you can see the "Offending" Porthole.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/hkins/Alans%20Planes/Sunderland%20Builds/FILE0935.jpg

Regards

Alan

[LJK]

I have included my build here (which incidently I should finish posting) as I thought I had a clear picture

of the plans, how ever it doesn't having had a look through.I'll include it here it has some things a Modeller

can use for the Mk I such as the interior (all marks had similar lay out - mostly)

http://www.britmodel...showtopic=47663

Alan, your Airfix Sunderland project is stunning. Hope we'll the finished article soon!

Best wishes,

Jukka

[woody37]

Thanks for that link to your build Alan, I forgot it was you who was doing this stunning build. Have you made any more progress ?

Had a strange one here tonight, I took some pictures of the interior before I stitched her up, but the pictures haven't come out.....on a digital camera ?????

I just tried the camera again and it works OK, so I'm a little confused as to what happened. Anyway, I added some framework around the dorsal gun positions much the same as TonyOT and a few bits n bobs in the bomb stowage are on the walls to give it some interest. Having looked back at Alans build, mine is quite plain in comparison, however most of it won't be seen thank god !

I'm thinking of doing the side port holes in Kleer, but the top and bottom ones by inverting the clear parts and inserting them from the exterior and sanding them flush. Some pics to follow over the weekend

Cheers, Neil

[LDSModeller]

Thanks for that link to your build Alan, I forgot it was you who was doing this stunning build. Have you made any more progress ?

Had a strange one here tonight, I took some pictures of the interior before I stitched her up, but the pictures haven't come out.....on a digital camera ?????

I just tried the camera again and it works OK, so I'm a little confused as to what happened. Anyway, I added some framework around the dorsal gun positions much the same as TonyOT and a few bits n bobs in the bomb stowage are on the walls to give it some interest. Having looked back at Alans build, mine is quite plain in comparison, however most of it won't be seen thank god !

I'm thinking of doing the side port holes in Kleer, but the top and bottom ones by inverting the clear parts and inserting them from the exterior and sanding them flush. Some pics to follow over the weekend

Cheers, Neil

Hi Neil

Sounds like your build is coming along nicely!! Have to say congrats to you for taking the time

to do this build review - I keep checking Britmodeller each day through out to see if there's anything

new

Apart from the one on Cybermodeller (basic glue and show -no paint) yours is really the only decent one

I've seen so far - though on one of the one's I have seen, there were some interesting comments on what

could be found in the bomb bay - NOT!

My Sunderland has had some done, but I need to do some more to do a decent update post hopefully

in the next few days

Interesting you should comment on the Dorsal portholes, there has been a model posted on Hyperscale

(no build post), and it shows mostly the upper aircraft, and I did wonder how Italeri would have you set those

in the build sequence?

links

http://i132.photobuc...ulkirsopp/d.jpg

http://i132.photobuc...ulkirsopp/c.jpg

Just as aside note, not sure why the modeller placed the upper mast at the front? It should be

part way between the wings, the DF loop should be over the navigators position (starboard side

upper fuselage above third porthole in) The small aerial mast should be over portside above the radio

operators postion (just forward of wing leading edge upper fuselage). The aerial wire should go from

the vertical Stabillizer to the main mast then to the small mast.

I know what you mean about camera's, couple of years ago I had just filmed on my vid camera a WWII

veteran Sunderland pilot giving some technical comments on equipment- need less to say it wasn't

in the camera - yes the air was very blue outside when I discovered this!!!!!

Looking forward to your photos, keep up the good work !!!

Regards

Alan

Edited October 27, 2012 by LDSModeller

[perdu]

Hi Neil

I'm not sure how the hecky thump I missed you starting this peach I wouldnt miss it for the world

I am one of the Sunderland family babies myself

Dad flew in them from Pembroke Dock back in the day, (when he wasnt bimbling about in Catathingies) after the falling off Stirling wings period.

Air gunning, depth charge handling and general tea and wad making were specialities of his he said. Gone now though so I cant ask for detail stuff now. (He was an armourer during the BoB period at Hawkinge)

I'm loving the work you (And yes Alan too) have done

I took a few pictures of Hendon's Sunderland when I visited last year if they are any use to you I'll try to pop them on a PM

If you have closed up they wont help much but they do confirm the general wrinklysmoothness of her

As stated early on in the build I wouldnt like to have all those panels to be grouted. I'd flush grout them and concentrate on weathering providing the panel definition

One of my pictures, though generally No Bloomin' Use for the instrument panels but looking through the front screen shows no sign of a coaming in front of the panel

This is the pic I meant about looking at the coaming area when magified (Massively)

[woody37]

Perdu, that's a great picture. I remember you mentioning your dad falling from the Stirling lol. He was a Shorts man through and through then ? It's really inspiring knowing that there's several Sunderland family guys here on BM

Alan, I've left the guns and deflectors off for now as they can be added at the end, the holes have been masked from the inside prior to closing up. I was also planning to add a bit of detail in them that's visible from your pics. Current progress is tidying up the seams. Another thing I'm planning on leaving off until the end is the bomb racks. The little 'hooks' will have to be removed that allows them to slide in and out, but thet's no loss as I am planning to have them on the wings as per Perdu's pic.

Cheers

[perdu]

Ah, like so?

I have a couple of the mechanism from inside too. Shall I mail them to you Neil?

[perdu]

view from inside the black hole towards the gubbins's that drops the charges

I love a bit of technical, me!

[LDSModeller]

view from inside the black hole towards the gubbins's that drops the charges

I love a bit of technical, me!

Nice photo Perdu!

As a plus for the Italeri Kit, they actually got that part right on the wing undersides.

Going by the photos of the kit, the Italeri tracks may be a tad too big, to account for

the movement of the racks in/out of the bomb bay hatch, but nothing to loose sleep over.

If anyone is interested in how the whole system works, I would be happy to provide the

technicals of the actual operation.

Regards

Alan

[Ed Russell]

I hope you'll post some pictures of the results after it's all painted up?

There is a build on Hyperscale which, while nice enough, reinforces the argument for doing something about the panel lines.

Here's the untouched plastic.

Then filled with stretched sprue as per my previous post above and sprayed with Tamiya Fine Primer

Then a test paint with Extra Dark Sea Grey (Humbrol) and Dark Slate Grey (Model Master)

According to my measurements I have reduced the lines by about two-thirds. This method is quite tedious but I think it does have several advantages in that it avoids the 'pillowy' effect of just loading on more and more primer and it does leave something there to break up the expanse of metalwork. It's probably no more tedious than spraying multiple coats of primer and carefully removing them by sanding between each. I think the Airfix Bf110 and Hasegawa He 111 will be the next recipients of this, assuming it works okay in the end.

I'm happy I have something that appears from this experiment to work okay but I think it can be judged only by the finished product - which is some way off. Note that the paint coats are very light single passes and a finish coat will look better. The area where the DSG covers the underlying EDSG looks better than the rest - encouraging.

I will move these images to a build thread once I start it up.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Ed Russell

[keefr22]

That does indeed look encouraging.

Keef

[woody37]

Keef, Bill great pics, thanks for posting them. Very useful

Ed, the stretched sprue seems to work really well, another thing learned

This is going to be the last post until later in the week due to work commitments, but the wings are on. I did a bit of work to blend the join in, quite pleased with it, however there's very little to see in terms of detail. I have a knack of creating work for myself around the priming stage, expecially when there's lots of windows to mask over. After some experimenting, all the port holes will be done using Krystal Kleer, but I'm going to mask the holes using Maskol which will be removed afterwards. I tried doing the Kleer windows then applying maskol, but it fogs it over.

[keefr22]

Thanks Neil - but I haven't posted any pics, I think someone else must deserve the thanks!

Keef

[woody37]

You're right Keef, ignore my thanks and it all goes to Bill

[perdu]

Aw heck Neil

i dont mind sharing, Keef did show it again after all

I hope you didnt fair the wings too well to the fuselage

notice the big gaps underneath in my top picture

I seem to have about twenty odd pictures taken last year, I'll see if I can work out how to link to the photobucket system

or you can look up perdu1 Sunderland Flying Boat RAF Hendon, they seem to all be in there or here on the thread

[perdu]

Let's we see if this does the trick

http://s1226.photobu...at RAF Hendon/

Yes that seems to do it

toodlepip

bill

Edited October 28, 2012 by perdu

[LDSModeller]

I hope you didnt fair the wings too well to the fuselage

notice the big gaps underneath in my top picture

Those gaps or tracks are only like that when the bomb racks are run out.

When the bomb racks are insde the fuselage the tracks are covered by thin aluminum

strips as shown in this photo - Note the strips go all the way to the fuselage, this

photo is unique as it shows a bit of both, as the strips are stopped part way in.

It's entirely up to the modeller of course, (I know Neil has said he will have the racks out

so all good there) If a Modeller who is concerned with accuracey, and will have the bomb

racks inside the fuselage then the tracks should be covered, and these strips should be

"Flush" with the wing skin.

EDIT I have discovered why Italeri have the open tracks, I found Italeri's facebook page

(by accident)

Link here

http://www.modellism...o96v6A.facebook

As I scrolled through I came across this photo in their little booklet, with a photo of the Duxford

Mk V Sunderland showing the tracks open.

if you click on this link, it shows a page from the italeri booket showing the above photo

(or similar)

Link to booklet page here

http://i40.photobuck...zps2fb50a43.jpg

Duxford Sunderland Bomb tracks note from what I can see this Sunderland is not

fully complete, so probably not great to source photos from

http://www.flickr.co...N05/6922226628/

Neil Your model is coming along really well. Certainly looks the part

Just looking at your model, I see Italeri have done their homework.

The leading edge oil filter cooler intakes look the part (and right Angle too), as are the

exhausts on the upper leadging edge.

The other thing I have noticed is, that Italeri have included in their bow turret and opening

(actually somewhat larger on real aircraft) at the turret base for which the gunner could

enter/exit.

This is all very exciting, looking forward to what comes next

Thanks for posting your build pics

Regards

Alan

Edited October 29, 2012 by LDSModeller

[perdu]

Alan, sorry mate you missed the joke

I dont mean the rail tracks

Look at the wing-fuselage joint underneath Hendon's machine in my first picture

There's a visible gap that must be half an inch wide, just to the rear of the rail trackway

Anyway, Neil you are doing some of your usual awesome work with this one

Bill

[LDSModeller]

Alan, sorry mate you missed the joke

I dont mean the rail tracks

Look at the wing-fuselage joint underneath Hendon's machine in my first picture

There's a visible gap that must be half an inch wide, just to the rear of the rail trackway

Anyway, Neil you are doing some of your usual awesome work with this one

Bill

Hi Bill

Sorry, I guess I did miss the joke (these new meds I'm on, mess with my Brain )

Regards

Alan

Edited October 29, 2012 by LDSModeller

[woody37]

Thanks guys, all very informative. Away from the kit at the moment, but Italeri have indeed build the half inch gap under the wing !!!!

The front turret mechanism is quite neat, at the moment it opens and closes, however it may not after some paint, we'll see. Next step is to fit the tail planes then it's onto masking all the clear bits for spraying, hate that bit !

The sadist in me is tempted to follow Alan in doing an Airfix Mk.III at some point, so much inspiration

[LJK]

I keep following this interesting thread and the progress of Neil's Sunderland, which is coming along nicely.

One thing I intended to post earlier is a small addition to what has been written here about the Sunderland's exterior and interior finishes. I don't know how many of you used to read Ian Huntley's column in Scale Aircraft Modelling, but for me he was a great inspiration. In Vol.3 No.4 (Dec 1981) his column was entitled British Maritime Finishes 1934-1940. What he wrote about the mid-1930s metal-hulled boats like the Stranraer and the Singapore Mk.III is of course not directly concerned with the Sunderland but is probably relevant to early Sunderlands at least:

"The metal hulls were largely constructed from light-alloy sheet and all such material was given anodic protective treatment prior to assembly. The whole of the interior, including the inside face of the skinning, was also painted separately in Grey Green 34226: 27D3. All parts were 'wet' assembled with Duralac or some other jointing compound, and certain areas were then finally sprayed with Aluminium cellulose enamel after assembly so that any ingress of water could be more easily seen. The metal wing and tail structures were similarly treated before fabric covering. The hull exteriors were also finished in Aluminium, often with a clear anti-fouling lacquer applied to the below water-line areas."

Huntley then goes on to describe late 1930s RAF camouflage experiments for flying boats and so on. Definitely interesting and also relevant to the Sunderland, but I'd surely be infringing copyright if I quoted further paragraphs here...

Hope this's of interest to someone.

Cheers,

Jukka

[LDSModeller]

Hi Jukka

certainly Shorts had a long history of flying boat building, and some of what

occured in the late 1930's would have relevance to the Sunderland manufacture.

My father made mention that the sheeting on the Short Sunderland was 2mm thick

(not very thick when thinking about it) and had to be fashioned in a certain way prior to

fitting on the the hull (including anodising and corrosion treatment).

In his book "Wings on Windermere" Author Allan king states that the metal was anodised to fit with the

Air Ministry's requirements (paraphrased) for corrosion protection. The panels were assembled with

Barium Chromate paste, between the joints, sprayed with Zinc Chromate (inside/outside), then primed

before painting (Sunderlands at Windermere were Mk III's).

This photo of some plating fitted to our MR 5 (Mk V) here at MOTAT, should give you some idea of

how it looks prior to painting

As far as the hull's go, to my knowledge all Sunderlands had Lanolin based water proofing paint

applied to and below the water line. Some appeared light grey as in this photo link.

http://www.airport-d...oto/116299.html

Incidently the water proofing was not always effective, as one of the first duty's of a Sunderland

crew (especially during WWII and if the aircraft sat for a few days) was to pull up the flooring of the

aircraft, and check the bilges for water. If it was found, then the crew would use a pump and hoses

(stored on board -hoses hung on the wall of the bomb bay) to empty the bilges. If the bilges appeared

with too much water, the aircraft more than likey would have to be beached for repairs.

As a piece of trivia, during the opening of the Wellington -New Zealand International Airport in the

1950's, an RNZAF Sunderland NZ4113 M-Mike doing a low fly past was hit by a down draft and scraped it's

keel on the run way, as it continued on the crowd was treated to a shower of bilge water, see attached

Regards

Alan

Edited November 2, 2012 by LDSModeller

[LJK]

Hi Alan,

The things you mentioned are good to keep in mind, to avoid misinterpreting what one sees in photos. Especially the paint applied below the waterline.

The RNZAF Sunderland flypast is certainly as low as you can get, short or crashing! As it's a flying boat, maybe we could say she ran aground...

Regards,

Jukka

[woody37]

After a hectic week between work and family birthdays, it's now to the point where I need to mask before painting. The fret attachment points on the kit are a pain in places, particularly the engines, but got there in the end. I was in WHSmith on Saturday and by coincidence, they had a book (thick magazine)on the Sunderland, so thought it would be rude not to pick it up. There are some good pictures in there including ones of the Sunderland being manufactured, so it's a good reference for anyone building one. The only thing that's confused me with it is that all the profiles (all marks) seem to have the same stepped hull as the Mk.I despite pictures showing the different style of later marks. There's some close up pictures to show the state of the panel lines at this point.

[Seahawk]

It looks much more severely waisted/tapered around the nose turret than the Airfix offering, doesn't it? I've no idea which, if either, is right: my whole mental image of what a Sunderland looks like has been too shaped by the Airfix kit!