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treker_ed

Disaster for Vulcan!

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Just a quick thought .....maybe large companys could be persuaded to adopt these aircraft .They waste enough in advertising costs

They could run the plane and have flying adverts ,subtley done...............who knows could catch on.

like redbull did with the seavixen, how cool would a redbull vulcan look?????

hmmm theres a what if gb on isnt there, now thats an idea

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like redbull did with the seavixen, how cool would a redbull vulcan look?????

hmmm theres a what if gb on isnt there, now thats an idea

Awful! I'd sooner see the Vulcan kept in a fast taxi condition than painted in a Red Bull scheme!

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Awful! I'd sooner see the Vulcan kept in a fast taxi condition than painted in a Red Bull scheme!

I was thinking more like TESCO in big red letters, the big companies have the money they should be tapped.

Any plane flying even if its pink is better than not flying.Colours dont make the plane,flying it does.

Edited by eagle

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I was thinking more like TESCO in big red letters, the big companies have the money they should be tapped.

Any plane flying even if its pink is better than not flying.Colours dont make the plane,flying it does.

what about dairy lee imagine a giant flying cheese triangle

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what about dairy lee imagine a giant flying cheese triangle

yes thats the idea

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Big business had their chance to sponsor it before it flew again. The original plan when it's flying days were over was to keep it for fast taxi displays a la Bruntingthorpe.

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Big business had their chance to sponsor it before it flew again. The original plan when it's flying days were over was to keep it for fast taxi displays a la Bruntingthorpe.

I doubt very much that big business had their chance it was more like the terms of contract and the deal on offer were not to their liking, if they are paying the piper then they get to pick the tune,standard business practices. In relation specifically to the vulcan it would be a better spectacle for would be air show goers to actually see it flying as it does now. The only reason it wont be is money. Runiing planes up a runway is not appealing.IMHO.Dont they call that drag racing at Santa Pod.

Edited by eagle

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the vulcan as she has more relevance to me than spits and lancs im afraid

So you reckon the Vulcan has more historical significance than the flight that pays direct homage to the RAF personnel killed in WW2 (the RAF's most significant conflict afterall), and the 55573 of Bomber Command in particular? (that said, I partially agree that the BBMF does seem to have quite a few Spits these days!)

As for remaining a runner, I don't know if that's an option being considered for whatever visitor attraction they come up with. Certainly if they didn't, Bruntingthorpe has plenty of other exhibits and there's the taxying Vulcan at Wellesbourne Mountford too.

They're down to their final serviceable engines, so if they lose any, then it probably couldn't fly again anyway for any long term. With a business head on that makes it very difficult to justify spending £200,000 on a long term wing fix if it might only get 5 minutes use.

Edited by Vickers McFunbus

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Hardly a disaster, probably reaching it's fatgue life, in which case it may well be uneconomic to keep it flying, if it crashed. now that would be a disaster. We all have to remember that any mechanical device has a finite life, and will eventually wear out. We've had several good years of displays from the Vulcan and been lucky to have them, perhaps it's time the old girl had a well earned retirement.

Andrew

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Vulcan is The only aircraft my wife gets worked up about it's been brilliant to see it flying around for the past six years ( we should count our selves lucky that someone thought it was a good idea went and did it) it's a shame but maybe it's right to retire it now.

Now if only EADS could be persuaded to put Filton's Concorde back in the air :thumbsup2::please::pray:

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the vulcan as she has more relevance to me than spits and lancs im afraid

50000+ Bomber Command dead in WW II helping preserve the freedoms you enyjoy today says the Lanc has more relevance to you than you think. And I say that as one who loves to see the Vulcan fly.

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So you reckon the Vulcan has more historical significance than the flight that pays direct homage to the RAF personnel killed in WW2 (the RAF's most significant conflict afterall), and the 55573 of Bomber Command in particular? (that said, I partially agree that the BBMF does seem to have quite a few Spits these days!)

50000+ Bomber Command dead in WW II helping preserve the freedoms you enyjoy today says the Lanc has more relevance to you than you think. And I say that as one who loves to see the Vulcan fly.

I knew that was coming,

I never said WW2 and those who fought in it were irrelevant did i?

I just prefer the vulcan, i grew up in the jet age and its jets that are more prominent in modern society, maybe the raf should start up a falklands war memorial flight or just a memorial flight in general that covers the key aircraft that have served the nation over the years.

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Ref the BBMF vs Vulcan argument, consider for the money how many airshows the Vulcan manages to visit (out of the ones it's scheduled for) and how many various elements of the BBMF manage. Now put yourself in the RAF's shoes and consider which one makes more sense if they were even in the mood to consider the change.

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I will be sorry to see the Vulcan go ,as a boy living near what became Robin Hood airport i saw Vulcans nearly every day so to me as well it means more then the lanc or spit. The RAF will not set it on if they wanted a Vulcan they would have picked one when the type was withdrawn.

Sad but all things come to an end.How long can the RAF keep the BBMF going??? How long before it becomes TOO OLD to fly safely ??

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How long can the RAF keep the BBMF going???

I think the limiting factor on that is how long the right grade of fuel is going to be made for. Mechanically the machines are relatively simple and there's a big enough supply of parts for the engines which would be the other limiting factor as no one makes the right alloys anymore*.

*You could use newer better alloys but you'd have to get the engines recertified.

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I rememebr a quote from the then C/O of BBMF when the Vulcan was still on RAF charge. He said he would love to have the Vulcan, but it cost more to run that the entire BBMF. As always, follow the money.

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Besides the fact that the Vulcan is such an iconic, British design, played an important part in Britain's (post) war history and is a mighty sight and sound in an air display, the loss of it from the airshow circuit has such an impact due to the lack of cold war/jet aircraft. Don't get me wrong, I love to see/hear a Spitfire, P-51 or Lancaster any day, but where are the Phantoms, Buccaneers, Jaguars, Lightnings, Starfighters (yes, I KNOW it's not a British aircraft, but it was an extremely important aircraft for many European/NATO countries) etc. etc.... I know they are difficult to maintain and costly to operate, but if a four engine bomber can be brought back to life, I don't think it's impossible to restore other, smaller, cold war jets to flying condition (especially when some airframes are preserved in pristine condition, have been retired only recently or are still operational).

I know of an F-104 being restored in Norway, but haven't heard any news on its status for considerable time.

Now, where's my lottery ticket?

Edited by JeffreyK

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I think you may find that at the end of next years season a change of heart has occurred....All the people keeping her in the air will not roll over quietly...If the money is there she will continue....Hopefully........Smudge

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snapback.pngVickers McFunbus, on 13 October 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

So you reckon the Vulcan has more historical significance than the flight that pays direct homage to the RAF personnel killed in WW2 (the RAF's most significant conflict afterall), and the 55573 of Bomber Command in particular? (that said, I partially agree that the BBMF does seem to have quite a few Spits these days!)

snapback.pngPLC1966, on 13 October 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

50000+ Bomber Command dead in WW II helping preserve the freedoms you enyjoy today says the Lanc has more relevance to you than you think. And I say that as one who loves to see the Vulcan fly.

I am not entirely sure of the relevance of arguments such as the above in relation to this topic. Charley is entitled to his view & we should respect that even though we may not agree. We all have our own different perspectives on this. All preserved aircraft are historically significant to one degree or another. My own personal perspective is that I would quite happily sacrifice the Red Arrows if it meant that money could be used to keep other aircraft like the Lightning, Phantom, Shackleton, Harrier, Buccaneer (for example) airworthy & flying.

I can now hear the cries of "Burn him on the pyres of Smithfield" for my heresy. Fair enough. I have given an honest point of view. I enjoy the Red Arrows as much as anyone & genuinely admire the skill and professionalism of the pilots but,when it comes to "historical significance", how relevant are they?

Anyhow, getting back on track ( sorry for the digression), I consider that (while this is sad news), it was also inevitable. XH558 gave us a good run for our money and, the time has now arrived to allow her to retire gracefully. We all knew this would happen and, I support the decision not to to proceed with the necessary refurbishment. The risks now clearly outweigh the benefits. Better this than to maybe lose her forever in the event of an accident.

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We would all love to see a/c like the F-4 and Lightning, but the CAA say no to reheat a/c on the civil register. Only the Bucc is a possibility if and when the guys at Scampton think it's a cost effective option.

Maybe the Vulcan will continue, it depends on many things. If I won the euromillions, it definately would be in the air for some time yet, even if I had to buy it outright. I don't know if the wingspar mod has ever been successfully done on any of the in-service airframes. I don't know if it's lifed or just fatigued. £200,000 doesn't sound that much for a wing spar job in today's world. I shudder to think what RR would charge to refurb some more Olympus mind. There must be adequate spares. In the end it all comes down to money, and how they keep her in the air in today's climate I don't know. Let's just hope something will be done.

Edited by bentwaters81tfw

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VTTS needs £400,000 just for winter servicing to ensure that we all get to see her

fly next season for her final hurrah,that's just for starters.

Read here for the full cost(£700,000 minimum for winter servicing and pre-op checks

ready for next season):

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/408/82/Important-news-on-the-future-of-XH558.html

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We would all love to see a/c like the F-4 and Lightning, but the CAA say no to reheat a/c on the civil register. Only the Bucc is a possibility if and when the guys at Scampton think it's a cost effective option.

Maybe the Vulcan will continue, it depends on many things. If I won the euromillions, it definately would be in the air for some time yet, even if I had to buy it outright. I don't know if the wingspar mod has ever been successfully done on any of the in-service airframes. I don't know if it's lifed or just fatigued. £200,000 doesn't sound that much for a wing spar job in today's world. I shudder to think what RR would charge to refurb some more Olympus mind. There must be adequate spares. In the end it all comes down to money, and how they keep her in the air in today's climate I don't know. Let's just hope something will be done.

I sometimes think CAA stands for Cancel All Aviation. However, I do wonder at the scope of the "no reheat" ruling. Would this I wonder apply to Concorde? As for the historical fast jets, these are I suggest ALL of historical significance. I wonder then why they could not nominally remain under the auspices of the RAF/BBMF while at the same time recieving funding from public subscription/public fundraising/lottery as the Vulcan did?

Of course, I suppose that if that were possible, the ignorant bean counting bureaucrats would find a way to thwart it!

Edited by Albeback52

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" but the CAA say no to reheat a/c on the civil register"

...does this count for the whole of Europe, or UK only? How will the guys in Bodo, Norway fly their F-104D safely without AB?

I wonder how, over time, a healthy UK airshow industry can be sustained this way. Aircraft and people are getting older. WWII airframes will eventually need to be retired (if they don't crash) for safety reasons, fatigue, lack of spares etc., just as the Vulcan now. Also, younger people aren't that emotionally attached to WWII aircraft - people will know their historical importance, but there won't be as much emotional, personal affection/connection as with older generations. Younger people want to see what "gets them going", what they are connected to. What they've seen flying when they were kids, what their dads flew in etc.

I don't see things changing in the immediate future, but over time I hope that growing demand (and a need to sustain the UK airshow industry) will cause some changes in regulations etc.

Jeffrey

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, younger people aren't that emotionally attached to WWII aircraft - people will know their historical importance, but there won't be as much emotional, personal affection/connection as with older generations. Younger people want to see what "gets them going", what they are connected to. What they've seen flying when they were kids, what their dads flew in etc.

Jeffrey

thats what i was trying to say when i said the vulcan was more relevant. well said Jeffrey

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Don't get me wrong, I love to see/hear a Spitfire, P-51 or Lancaster any day, but where are the Phantoms, Buccaneers, Jaguars, Lightnings, Starfighters

Lovely though it would be to see 'Tooms, Buccs etc. operating on the airshow circuit, even if the CAA allowed reheat on civilian aircraft, it wouldn't be economically sustainable. The Vulcan has funding from the National Lottery and donations and barely manages to fund itself, bear in mind it costs around £18000 to fill her up with fuel* alone. None of the jets you mention are cheap to operate and if they're going to fund themselves from airshow appearances then you'll either end up with massively increased prices for tickets, or one aircraft per airshow.

*2009 figures when I was helping run an airshow where we were offered the Vulcan for free if we filled her up, we said no as it was pretty much half our budget for aircraft, they came anyway.

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