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Spitfire Green 1940-41


Sean_M

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After consulting the colour charts (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_uk.htm) I bought XF-61 for my dark green and XF-52 for the brown. when I airbrushed the green on it looked far to dark. Almost a Luftwaffe green.

The closets I came to seeing such a dark green was on this Spitfire

spitfire_mkv_hac_01.jpg

The green on this build seems more realistic http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52316

Which matches

Spitfire1aK9942.jpg

I know screen resolutions and camera settings make a difference but if anyone has got some Tamiya XF-61 around I would be interested if they did a test. My disaster with plasti-kote mean I have had to stip my Spit down so before I respray I would be interested in hearing from others out there. I know colour has been a long raging topic and as many will point out weathering, paint pigment etc played a lot to do with the difereent shades of green. I think the Green was darker post 1941 when the Gray-Green scheme was introduced.

This is given as the supposed proper colour? http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=34079

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The dark green on the spitfire did not change, apart from the normal variations between batches etc.

I've used the same tamiya paint before and I've never found it too dark, maybe yours comes from a bad batch? However I don't consider this paint a great match for RAF dark green as it lacks that little bit of brownish cast that the RAF colour has. I know my explanation is not great, but I'm sure others will comment on this.

Tamiya has a much better match in their range: XF-81 RAF Dark Green. This was introduced together with their 1/32 spitfire specifically to reproduce the RAF colour.

Edited by Giorgio N
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The dark green on the spitfire did not change, apart from the normal variations between batches etc.

I've used the same tamiya paint before and I've never found it too dark, maybe yours comes from a bad batch? However I don't consider this paint a great match for RAF dark green as it lacks that little bit of brownish cast that the RAF colour has. I know my explanation is not great, but I'm sure others will comment on this.

Tamiya has a much better match in their range: XF-81 RAF Dark Green. This was introduced together with their 1/32 spitfire specifically to reproduce the RAF colour.

Thank you. I new something was lacking. Your explanation of being brownish may not be the best but it makes perfect sense to me. I just felt that something was to quiete right with the XF61. It did no "look right". I think most modellers will say the rule of thumb is that it needs to "look correct" I have will get some XF-81 and give that a try and report back

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Can't comment on XF-61 or 81 but the MAP paint swatch for RAF Dark Green is a dark olive green and measures as Munsell 10 Y 2.9/1.5. The closest FS 595b value is 34083 which is a useful match at 1.49. FS 34079 is at 4.31 well within the parameters of batch variance and surface degradation. Main pigments were chromium oxide green, brown precipitated iron oxide and black which is why it degraded differently to Dark Olive Drab although both were of similar appearance when new.

Edited by Nick Millman
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Another vote for XF-81 here as I used it on my Airfix 1/72 Spitfire and Tamiya Buffalo:

72Spitmk1-2a.jpg

buffalo2.jpg

As for XF-52 just doesn't look quite right to me since it seems almost milk chocolate in its coloring (with maybe an ever so slight purple tinge) than the brown/tan shade of RAF Dark Earth. Although I admit it looks pretty close to the color shade found in the picture of that Poland Spit cowl above. I used a Testors Model Master Dark Earth/Brown shade (can't recall the ANA number of it) on both these models, but that likely won't do you much good since I doubt there are any close suppliers that have the Testors/Italeri paints. I would expect there is a Humbrol acrylic color though or a Revell one. In a pinch, mixing 52 with Tamiya flat brown might work, but then you run into the hassle of a custom mix and had better hope you don't run out before you are done painting the model.

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Another vote for XF-81 here as I used it on my Airfix 1/72 Spitfire and Tamiya Buffalo:

72Spitmk1-2a.jpg

buffalo2.jpg

As for XF-52 just doesn't look quite right to me since it seems almost milk chocolate in its coloring (with maybe an ever so slight purple tinge) than the brown/tan shade of RAF Dark Earth. Although I admit it looks pretty close to the color shade found in the picture of that Poland Spit cowl above. I used a Testors Model Master Dark Earth/Brown shade (can't recall the ANA number of it) on both these models, but that likely won't do you much good since I doubt there are any close suppliers that have the Testors/Italeri paints. I would expect there is a Humbrol acrylic color though or a Revell one. In a pinch, mixing 52 with Tamiya flat brown might work, but then you run into the hassle of a custom mix and had better hope you don't run out before you are done painting the model.

You have me convinced. Dare I ask what brown you used?

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The brown I used was Testors Model Master 2054 ANA 617 Dark Earth. It is indeed a lovely color, but as I said, you might not be able to get it easily in the UK, unless there is a UK based importer for Testors/Italeri brand paints (doubtful). Plus, the color I used is an enamel. Testors does it as an acrylic (Testors #4846 Dark Earth) and Testors acrylics CAN be thinned with Tamiya X-20A thinner as I do it frequently with no problems, but given that their enamel line remains king even in the states, that likely will reduce the chances of finding a UK based source for it even more given that Humbrol, Revell and Xtracolor will be the more available paint brands on your side of the pond.

If you do try to source some, good luck. But I am pretty sure you could probably find something just as good for the brown (if not better) from a more domestic UK source.

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To my eye, Tamiya XF 52 is too dark and too red for the MAP color Dark Earth, at least when compared to the example in the RAF Museum booklet on RAF WWII colors. .

tamiyaxf52.jpg

The photo used artifical light, neither color may appear correct on your monitor, but whether accurate or not it at least gives a direct comparison between XF 52 and Dark Earth

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I have just read something about painting matts used to paint the camo on spits it seems the under colour (Brown or grey) was applied first and then the green so it gave a hard edge to the green. Anyone care to comment?

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I have just read something about painting matts used to paint the camo on spits it seems the under colour (Brown or grey) was applied first and then the green so it gave a hard edge to the green. Anyone care to comment?

If you look at the top of this section, you'll find a thread on British Camo masks, in which you'll find the resident expert (not me) on the subject.

Edgar

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Anyone have a suggetion on which Tamiya colour then to use for the Brown?

Out of the bottle, XF 52 is Tamiya's color closest to Dark Earth. Unfortunately as I hope the photo I posted demonstrates, it is not all that close. Using Tamiya paints, the closest I have come is a mix:

XF 52 - 2 parts

XF 49 Kahki - 2 parts

XF 3 yellow - 1 part

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Hmmm, interesting thread.

I'm currently building a HobbyBoss Mk Vb as Buck Casson's aircraft & have been wracking my brain as to which paint to use.

I know a shop in Newark has Testors paint stocks. I used their cockpit green for this model & am pleased with the results, so may have to go have a look see if they have the green & brown.

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Not the make that you might be after but I've been using Humbrol 29 for 11 odd years since returning to the hobby and am more than happy with it. The paint experts might disagree but it looks damn good and especially after a touch of weathering.

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For what it's worth, I use Gunze H72 Dark Earth and H73 Dark Green, both in the "RAF" sequence of their colour chart. They're a tad lighter than the Testors colours (which I also have) and they look pretty good to me. However, the Gunze Dark Earth does have a smidgeon of that "chocolate" look to it.

Cheers,

Bill

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Sean

if you want acrylic, try Xtracrylix by Hannants, they are highly regarded as good matches [apart from their azure blue] easily available in the UK, and dry glossy, so you don't neeed to clear coat them for decalling.

They do all the main RAF colours as well.

Some folks have found them tricky, but this chap just finished an A-20 boston in them.

here - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234926088

HTH

T

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To my eye, Tamiya XF 52 is too dark and too red for the MAP color Dark Earth, at least when compared to the example in the RAF Museum booklet on RAF WWII colors. .

The photo used artifical light, neither color may appear correct on your monitor, but whether accurate or not it at least gives a direct comparison between XF 52 and Dark Earth

Firstly a very big THANK YOU! I tried your colour mix. It looks like the brown should. I had put the model away after having stripped all the paint off and was very disheartened, I have just re-sprayed the Brown (as per your mix) and my Spit va has come to life again. There are a few minor issues where I need to go back with a bit of filler and sandpaper before continuing. But I am a happy modeller again!

SptfireVa270212-b.jpg

Edited by Sean_M
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  • 1 month later...

To my eye, Tamiya XF 52 is too dark and too red for the MAP color Dark Earth, at least when compared to the example in the RAF Museum booklet on RAF WWII colors. .

tamiyaxf52.jpg

The photo used artifical light, neither color may appear correct on your monitor, but whether accurate or not it at least gives a direct comparison between XF 52 and Dark Earth

Visited the Museum yesterday. Had no idea what I was talking about when I asked for the booklet. pointed me to Camo and Markings for Battle of Britain. There was no pullout. Could you let me have the Full title and Author and ISBN number. Thanks

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I think the Book that is being referred to is "British Aviation Colours of World War Two" my copy hails from 1976, there are some listed at Amazon but they are a mite expensive

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=British+Aviation+Colours+of+World+War+Two

Cheers

Dennis

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That's the one. British Aviation Colours of World War Two, the Official Camouflage, Colours and Markings Guide of RAF Aircraft, 1939-45; ISBN 0-85368-271-2; Arms and Armour Press, 1976. The text is simply approriate camoulfage and markings sections from various AMOs, the really useful part is the removable insert with reproductions of the various colors.

Edited by Chuck1945
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