goon Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Hi all, I'm thinking of doing my Hobbyboss Tornado either in flight, or landing. Am I right in thinking the thrust reversers can only be deployed if there is weight on the nose wheel? Or can I legitimately pose the aircraft on the main gear only with the reversers opening? What about the spoilers? Could they be up in the same pose? Cheers, Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 It's been a few years since I worked on the Tornado but, in my day, the WOW (Weight-On-Wheel) Switches had to make before the Thrust Reversers would deploy. (Which means the aircraft has to be 'solidly' on the ground). The Spoilers would also deploy - if selected, I believe. If you Google 'Tornado Aircraft Landing', I'm sure you'll see some videoes showing them in operation. Hope this helps - I'm sure we'll get some responses from people more current with the Tornado than I am! Cheers, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrierpilot Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 The two Tonkas I saw at this year's RIAT had all three sets of wheels "on weight" on the deck before the bucket deployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirfixAndy Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Unfortunately another fault of the HB kit ...those reverse buckets only deploy during the landing sequence when the aircraft has , I believe , all three sets of wheels on the deck. Im not sure about the spolilers but I would take Brians advice Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 When you say 'spoilers' are you talking about the airbrakes on top of the fuselage either side of the fin, if so it was my understanding they cannot be deployed at the same time as the thrust reversers as the deflected thrust would blow them off. Muzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirfixAndy Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Hiya Muzz.....I think hes talking about the ones that deploy on top of the wing ? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goon Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Thanks everyone. Yes, by spoilers I mean those on top of the wing. I'd never really thought why the reversers and airbrakes aren't seen together, but Muzz's explanation makes it very obvious! Cheers, Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Yes, the Spoilers are on the top surface of each mainplane (wing) - the Thrust Reversers are the large panels that open upwards on each side of the rear fuselage, at the base of the fin. The clever computers in the aircraft will automatically select the airbrakes IN if they are left out on landing (IIRC), as Muzz has said previously. Hope this helps clarify things. Cheers, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buccymad Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 anyone got any pictures of the insides of the spoilers?or any diagrams of what the internal gubbins look like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb'ed Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The buckets deploy when all 3 wheels are in contact with the ground, the resulting deployment also pushes the nose down slightly, the spoilers pop out to dump lift on the wing and act as an areodynamic breake. The only time the buckets would be out other wise is during maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Yes, the Spoilers are on the top surface of each mainplane (wing) - the Thrust Reversers are the large panels that open upwards on each side of the rear fuselage, at the base of the fin. The clever computers in the aircraft will automatically select the airbrakes IN if they are left out on landing (IIRC), as Muzz has said previously. Hope this helps clarify things. Cheers, Brian Spoilers -on top of the wings Thrust reversers - 'buckets' that swing out into the exhaust flow behind the jet pipes Airbrakes - two large panels on top of the rear fuselage either side of the fin Now repeat ....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Dambuster, Mea Culpa - I knew what I meant to say! You are correct, of course. Cheers, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 My memory may be fading but..... Rocking the throttles outboard controlled the lift dump (wing spoilers) & thrust reverse. Normally this was done after you were down, definitely staying down (ie not doing a roller/ touch & go) & all 3 wheels were in contact with terra firma. BUT it was possible to pre-arm LD & TR on final approach which activated on mainwheel touchdown, hence you could model a Tornado with the nosewheel still off the ground & the buckets/ spoliers deploying/ deployed. The reason you don't often see that for real is due to the potential for high rates of de-rotation if you cocked it up (ie the nose would slam down very hard during the deceleration) - this was partly the cause of the first RAF F3 crash (during landing at Akrotiri, Cyprus). For that reason, Pre-Armed Thrust Reverse Landings (PATRLs) were seldom practised, usually only once a year during a pilot's QFI "dual check" & you had to be within a strict set of parameters on short finals, eg rate of descent, crosswind, etc otherwise you deselected pre-arm & did it manually when you had all 3 wheels down. From what I remember there were one or two anomalies..... If you managed to bounce spectacularly badly on landing, it was possible to get airborne again with Lift Dump (spoilers) but not Thrust Reverse deployed (can't remember how). Since the jet then had all the flying qualities of a block of flats, this was generally viewed as a Bad Thing..... One of the downwind checks was to make sure the airbrakes were "in & locked" - there was an interlock between the airbrakes & thrust reverse buckets which was supposed to stow the brakes before the buckets deployed but the buckets (pneumatic) deployed very quickly (0.2 sec I think) & the airbrakes (hydraulic) took longer to than that to stow, so if you landed with them out (or even slightly unlocked) there was a real risk of blowing them off with Rev/ Rev. Cue a one way chat, with hat, no coffee..... Hope that helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) One of the cool things about Tornado is the sound the buckets make when being selected, a loud "Zipping" noise that can be heard over the noise of the engines. Shaun. Edited September 18, 2012 by Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrovian Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The Thrust reversers can be shown deployed on the ground but this would only be during functional checks and you would require a GPU and Hydraulic Rig. We did this at a St Athan airshow (93-95 ish) and before deploying them we had to warn the crowd of the noise level the Thrust Reversers make when deploying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirfixAndy Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 One of the cool things about Tornado is the sound the buckets make when being selected, a loud "Zipping" noise that can be heard over the noise of the engines. I can still hear that noise now !! Memories of the good old days at Leeming in the viewing area Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Guys Bombed is the chap in the know!! trust him, he sees them every day, and has helped me on lots of tornado questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TnF3 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Doug has it pretty much nailed. The thrust reverse system uses bleed air from the engine to operate the buckets. These are controlled by rocking outboard the left-hand throttle. If the airbrakes are deployed, they will be automatically retracted on reverse thrust selection, subject to the Weight on Wheels switches being made. The spoilers will deploy with the right-hand throttle being rocked outboard, also subject to WoW switches being made. Both throttles can still be moved from idle to max dry in the rocked position. You can hand wind the buckets on each engine open/closed for maintenance. So if you plan to do a hanger scene you will need to open the engine bay doors to either attach the test set and a comp' air or speed brace to operate the buckets. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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